Donald Trump

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Bars wrote:

Not so sure about that - if the problem is the same thing I'm talking about, i.e. we're living in a closed environment with limited resources and we seem to be well on our way to the point where we've pushed some biological or ecological system beyond its capacity for recovery.

Of course, the environment might not always be closed, but we're still a long way off from that one.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

when it comes to social issues, honestly I blame religion. As long as people are clinging to books written 1000s of years ago by people with less of a grasp on reality than the average 10 year old does in our times, books that set themselves up as unquestionable, that discriminate against gay people, women, other religions, you cant ever build the liberal forward thinking dream. We have to stop giving religion special treatment and start treating it like any other political ideology.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

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Bars wrote:

What we need:
- a shift of values from consumerism, mercantilism and materialism to sustainability and collectivism
- long-term planning and some difficult decisions which with unpleasant short-term side effects
- a shift from a growth-oriented economy to a preservation-oriented one
- capable, informed leadership which looks at the long term and the big picture

What we have:
- a system where everyone gets to say who's going to run the country, even if they can't spell their name right and are completely unqualified to have an actual opinion
- a system where you have to win a popularity contest to run the country (so it's rarely in their interest to speak the truth)
- a system where the guys elected to run the country can only do so for a few years (so they only think short-term)

In many cases you are rebelling against more than just status quo here, but also against reality itself.

1. Humans are an individualized species which weighs choices independently in relation to the individual good. In order to achieve truly long-term planning, one must invoke the secular afterlife: the concept of a legacy. Although it is possible to invoke the legacy concept in powerful narcissists - for example, motivating Trump to be a better president so we all build statues of him - the populist vehicle for legacies is the family unit. Parents want to have a positive impact upon the lives of their children - not all children, theirs - and can sacrifice for them out of a sense of genetic selfishness (in another thread I explain why selfishness should be harnessed when possible). Thus, the greatest means to populise long-term planning is strengthening of the family unit. However, modern politics and culture have instead led an assault on the family, imprisoning black fathers, creating economic conditions which discourage family child-rearing in favor of commercialised childcare, and promoting divisive gender politics under the false flag of gender equality. All of this disenfranchises parents from the right to raise their own children with their own values, undermining genetic legacy and encouraging a more individualized, short-term self-interest.

2. The core currency of an economy is human work; money is merely a token system we use as a medium to conveniently transfer the products of human time (and thus, human lives). Thinking isn't free; it costs human time, and therefore is work. Therefore, the notion of a preservation-based economy is perhaps one of the most destructive concepts. To solve the problems of the future, we need to grow our means to cover the basic needs of human life as well as building a better infrastructure for allowing minds to come up with solutions to these problems. We need to maximize economic specialization so that solutions can be found by experts, while simultaneously ensuring a culture such that false solutions are discarded and true solutions are valued.

3. You seem to advocate for long-term "philosopher kings" to run things. Their extreme degree of power would ensure their abuse of it. As I explained above, there are ways to make long-term planning more popular. The answer is not in installing tyrants capable of making unpopular decisions, but in rotating, democratically elected representatives in a system where long-term decisions are more popular.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

when it comes to social issues, honestly I blame religion. As long as people are clinging to books written 1000s of years ago by people with less of a grasp on reality than the average 10 year old does in our times, books that set themselves up as unquestionable, that discriminate against gay people, women, other religions, you cant ever build the liberal forward thinking dream. We have to stop giving religion special treatment and start treating it like any other political ideology.

First off, the West was built on a principle of religious moderation. Basically: as long as you hold the secular Rule of Law over the precepts of your religion, in deed if not in theory, then you're fine. And I support freedom of religion, in the same way I support freedom of political ideology, so long as it subordinates itself in that manner.

Second, I agree that Shari'a law is both a danger to Western civilization and antithetical to progressive values.

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innervation wrote:

I'm pretty concerned that neither party is interested in talking about transhumanism, nor are they talking about updating democracy with current technology. We could have ballot initiatives and polling weekly by phone/internet. Can't imagine why Congress isn't interested in that (I can).

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DalaiLama wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

when it comes to social issues, honestly I blame religion. As long as people are clinging to books written 1000s of years ago by people with less of a grasp on reality than the average 10 year old does in our times, books that set themselves up as unquestionable, that discriminate against gay people, women, other religions, you cant ever build the liberal forward thinking dream. We have to stop giving religion special treatment and start treating it like any other political ideology.

While we're throwing out old, unintelligent things - let's get rid of that stupid DNA system. It is obvious that there was zero planning in that 3.x billion year old scheme. The Earth is also four billion years past its new stage and aside from a leaky ozone layer and broken thermostat, it's infested with two legged parasites.

Don't even get me started on that big yellow gaseous hazmat sphere we're orbiting either. Yeah, let's just let those diffuse toxic clouds of Hydrogen just build up until they are massive enough to warp space, and become nuclear fires.

Honestly, I blame the Higgs boson :P

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Juicebox360 wrote:

who's to say everything is natural or not? cognition, life, our very existence could simply be the side effect of a simulation designed to solve some kind of equation that we don't even know.

and there may be multiples of these simulations running in tandem, or in chain.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

DNA is a natural thing that exists

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

so is our planet and the sun, they are physical things

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

that are part of and essential to our lives.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Theyre not a sinister brainwashing cult