Donald Trump

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Bars wrote:

What we need:
- a shift of values from consumerism, mercantilism and materialism to sustainability and collectivism
- long-term planning and some difficult decisions which with unpleasant short-term side effects
- a shift from a growth-oriented economy to a preservation-oriented one
- capable, informed leadership which looks at the long term and the big picture

What we have:
- a system where everyone gets to say who's going to run the country, even if they can't spell their name right and are completely unqualified to have an actual opinion
- a system where you have to win a popularity contest to run the country (so it's rarely in their interest to speak the truth)
- a system where the guys elected to run the country can only do so for a few years (so they only think short-term)

In many cases you are rebelling against more than just status quo here, but also against reality itself.

1. Humans are an individualized species which weighs choices independently in relation to the individual good. In order to achieve truly long-term planning, one must invoke the secular afterlife: the concept of a legacy. Although it is possible to invoke the legacy concept in powerful narcissists - for example, motivating Trump to be a better president so we all build statues of him - the populist vehicle for legacies is the family unit. Parents want to have a positive impact upon the lives of their children - not all children, theirs - and can sacrifice for them out of a sense of genetic selfishness (in another thread I explain why selfishness should be harnessed when possible). Thus, the greatest means to populise long-term planning is strengthening of the family unit. However, modern politics and culture have instead led an assault on the family, imprisoning black fathers, creating economic conditions which discourage family child-rearing in favor of commercialised childcare, and promoting divisive gender politics under the false flag of gender equality. All of this disenfranchises parents from the right to raise their own children with their own values, undermining genetic legacy and encouraging a more individualized, short-term self-interest.

2. The core currency of an economy is human work; money is merely a token system we use as a medium to conveniently transfer the products of human time (and thus, human lives). Thinking isn't free; it costs human time, and therefore is work. Therefore, the notion of a preservation-based economy is perhaps one of the most destructive concepts. To solve the problems of the future, we need to grow our means to cover the basic needs of human life as well as building a better infrastructure for allowing minds to come up with solutions to these problems. We need to maximize economic specialization so that solutions can be found by experts, while simultaneously ensuring a culture such that false solutions are discarded and true solutions are valued.

3. You seem to advocate for long-term "philosopher kings" to run things. Their extreme degree of power would ensure their abuse of it. As I explained above, there are ways to make long-term planning more popular. The answer is not in installing tyrants capable of making unpopular decisions, but in rotating, democratically elected representatives in a system where long-term decisions are more popular.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

when it comes to social issues, honestly I blame religion. As long as people are clinging to books written 1000s of years ago by people with less of a grasp on reality than the average 10 year old does in our times, books that set themselves up as unquestionable, that discriminate against gay people, women, other religions, you cant ever build the liberal forward thinking dream. We have to stop giving religion special treatment and start treating it like any other political ideology.

First off, the West was built on a principle of religious moderation. Basically: as long as you hold the secular Rule of Law over the precepts of your religion, in deed if not in theory, then you're fine. And I support freedom of religion, in the same way I support freedom of political ideology, so long as it subordinates itself in that manner.

Second, I agree that Shari'a law is both a danger to Western civilization and antithetical to progressive values.

@Scrotie: Let's just say we politely disagree on some political matters and leave it at that. I don't see anyone changing his views, no matter how skillful the other's arguments :)

Also, I'm not rebelling, I'm identifying issues the way I see them and saying what I think needs to happen to resolve those issues. Doesn't mean it will. I just hope so.

In an attempt to stay vaguely ontopic, have another serving of rational liberals:

http://9gag.com/gag/aPMRpDB

Bars be all like...
https://youtu.be/nwHdZi1eWMQ

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Bars be all like...
https://youtu.be/nwHdZi1eWMQ

:)

Believe it or not, I'm not exactly dying to have a long-ass conversation I've already had at least 20 times in various forms with other people.

I love how even as president elect Trump still shitposts on Twitter. I hope he will keep it up after January.

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Disrupted wrote:

Some people have reportedly suicided, holy shit. I blame the media for building up the "trump is literally hitler" propaganda.

Ye, libs are like "ppl are very afraid because of Trump so they kill themselves". No they're afraid because the dishonest media is fear mongering.

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Xavderion wrote:

I love how even as president elect Trump still shitposts on Twitter. I hope he will keep it up after January.

Yes, love it too!

Obama: calls for press conference, invites liberal media with exclusive question asking rights and front row seats, then proceeds to passive-aggressively attack conservatives while subtly making his point. Shuffles media favorites for next press conference according to the level of butt-kissing.

Trump: tweets to rebuke liberal media with no politically correct bulls**t, advisors and correspondents be damned, lol.

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No they're afraid because the dishonest media is fear mongering.

Yes but some of the crazy things they're screaming about totally defy anything even resembling common sense. You would really think from the way they go on that there was some sort of coup in the US and not an election that went pretty smoothly.

I saw one of these hyperbolic morons screaming on fb the other day about jews registering for gas chamber? Where do they even get these ideas?

Lost their minds.

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Antnee wrote:

I firmly believe that America would be happier as two nations. As neighbors instead of roommates.

It was supposed to be that way.

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The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.[1] It expresses the principle of federalism, which strictly supports the entire plan of the original Constitution for the United States of America, by stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the United States Constitution. All remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people.

But decade after decade, liberals con the people (and often times don't even wait for their go-ahead - they just legislate themselves more power) into 'let Washington D.C. do that for you', thereafter relying on a lazy and compliant citizenry to not take the necessary steps to take power back.

We were always supposed to be a 50 floor apartment, not a giant hippie commune with no walls.

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DalaiLama wrote:

Humanity only has one real problem to solve. (and neither campaign addressed it at all) If it doesn't solve that problem, the problem will solve humanity.

I'm pretty concerned that neither party is interested in talking about transhumanism, nor are they talking about updating democracy with current technology. We could have ballot initiatives and polling weekly by phone/internet. Can't imagine why Congress isn't interested in that (I can).

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innervation wrote:

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Antnee wrote:

I firmly believe that America would be happier as two nations. As neighbors instead of roommates.

It was supposed to be that way.

"

The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.[1] It expresses the principle of federalism, which strictly supports the entire plan of the original Constitution for the United States of America, by stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the United States Constitution. All remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people.

But decade after decade, liberals con the people (and often times don't even wait for their go-ahead - they just legislate themselves more power) into 'let Washington D.C. do that for you', thereafter relying on a lazy and compliant citizenry to not take the necessary steps to take power back.

We were always supposed to be a 50 floor apartment, not a giant hippie commune with no walls.

Very much this. I'm pro-choice, but I'm also pro-states-rights (and pro-municipal-rights) enough to be against Roe v Wade. I believe the president-elect basically mirrors my position. Don't get me wrong, I think any state which outlaws all forms of abortion is in the wrong... but there's something sinister in saying "sorry, states, I'm not going to treat you as adult enough to make your own decisions, instead you need to be thoroughly dependent on the discipline of your Uncle Sam."