Incinerate nerfed too hard.

If it will be lowered to be similar in dmg to other fire spells it might be not so bad. But RF incinerator (as XCodesLIVE suggested) with this kind of nerf might not be too good. Going for flame surge might be better (50% more from burning, 50% more from RF). But if the skill which was designed to get much more dmg when burning effect is on, to be doing less than normal fire spell.... it was broken.

I love incinerate and still plan on using it, but the way people are using it will surely change.

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Andrius319 wrote:

if u think incinerate went bad, try playing in real hardcore- ice spear till maps lvl 80 and experience what is true weakness in wraeclast in full glory:)

Yea, Ice spear need some love from GGG

"

Wooser69 wrote:

By comparison, most spells have gained 20-35% damage, while incinerate has lost 8% base (effective to 24.3-32% nerf in comparison) and on top of that 37.5% potential damage (stages reduced to 50%) alongside no longer supporting echo, effectively increasing the mana cost/s by 42.8% and removing a support that grants up to 53% more DPS and 70% more on-hit benefits. Meanwhile incinerate totems which were the current meta are uneffected by the echo change, while self-casting is heavily nerfed.

Seems you forgot the MAIN nerf here - Incinerate gains only +50% more damage per stage (down from 100%). It means you deal 300% damage instead of 500% (essentially -40% damage output).

With all those changes, Incinerate now seems like "ordinary" spell that cant crit for unknown reasons... I agree, it was too powerful before, but now it's far too overnerfed.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

Wooser69 wrote:

By comparison, most spells have gained 20-35% damage, while incinerate has lost 8% base (effective to 24.3-32% nerf in comparison) and on top of that 37.5% potential damage (stages reduced to 50%) alongside no longer supporting echo, effectively increasing the mana cost/s by 42.8% and removing a support that grants up to 53% more DPS and 70% more on-hit benefits. Meanwhile incinerate totems which were the current meta are uneffected by the echo change, while self-casting is heavily nerfed.

Seems you forgot the MAIN nerf here - Incinerate gains only +50% more damage per stage (down from 100%). It means you deal 300% damage instead of 500% (essentially -40% damage output).

With all those changes, Incinerate now seems like "ordinary" spell that cant crit for unknown reasons... I agree, it was too powerful before, but now it's far too overnerfed.

The one unknown factor is how well that new multiplier support gem is going to be (the one that reduces crit chance for spells)

It MIGHT make the gem useable, but without spell echo I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to be able to sustain the cost outside of EB or insane amount of -max cost.


With various other spells buffed (ball lightning included) it might be better to do something around those or at least be flexible, problem is I dont really like the view of iron will builds that aren't fire\proj based and I honestly don't think that magma orb is going to be any good.

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goetzjam wrote:

The one unknown factor is how well that new multiplier support gem is going to be (the one that reduces crit chance for spells)

It MIGHT make the gem useable, but without spell echo I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to be able to sustain the cost outside of EB or insane amount of -max cost.


With various other spells buffed (ball lightning included) it might be better to do something around those or at least be flexible, problem is I dont really like the view of iron will builds that aren't fire\proj based and I honestly don't think that magma orb is going to be any good.

From what i've seen, that new support gem gives 25% more gamage at level1, and will probably scale to 44% more damage at level 20. It's a nice support, but Echo was much better.

Sustaining Incinerate wont be a problem with Elreon's Jewelry, the real problem will be small DPS output.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

The one unknown factor is how well that new multiplier support gem is going to be (the one that reduces crit chance for spells)

It MIGHT make the gem useable, but without spell echo I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to be able to sustain the cost outside of EB or insane amount of -max cost.


With various other spells buffed (ball lightning included) it might be better to do something around those or at least be flexible, problem is I dont really like the view of iron will builds that aren't fire\proj based and I honestly don't think that magma orb is going to be any good.

From what i've seen, that new support gem gives 25% more gamage at level1, and will probably scale to 44% more damage at level 20. It's a nice support, but Echo was much better.

Sustaining Incinerate wont be a problem with Elreon's Jewelry, the real problem will be small DPS output.

O I'm not defending GGG for this nerf as it seems like way too much. However the skill *might* be useable because of the new support gem, despite the removal of spell echo.

But I tested incinerate in the closed beta, MANY people did and its mana cost without spell echo (either when they said it didn't work or it didn't work or just manually not using it and it wasn't sustainable)

To me it just forces builds to get -mana cost jewelry or do EB combination. I'm sure the buffed spells can better compete with it and probably will outshine it, but it was a pretty fun skill to use and worked so very well with iron will builds.

As far as the small DPS output I'm not entirely sure it won't do enough damage with specific setups. Without spell echo's 10% less damage and with the new more multiplier gem it might be enough to do content, but I feel like builds will be getting hit more often as it will still take longer to kill. If anything incinerate totems might still be good enough to use.

But its just like GGG to take the #1 or the #1 viewed build and nerf the shit out of it.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

The one unknown factor is how well that new multiplier support gem is going to be (the one that reduces crit chance for spells)

It MIGHT make the gem useable, but without spell echo I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to be able to sustain the cost outside of EB or insane amount of -max cost.


With various other spells buffed (ball lightning included) it might be better to do something around those or at least be flexible, problem is I dont really like the view of iron will builds that aren't fire\proj based and I honestly don't think that magma orb is going to be any good.

From what i've seen, that new support gem gives 25% more gamage at level1, and will probably scale to 44% more damage at level 20. It's a nice support, but Echo was much better.

Sustaining Incinerate wont be a problem with Elreon's Jewelry, the real problem will be small DPS output.

You are also getting more mana per level than you did so it'll give you a larger pool and more regen, and didn't i see something about the mana cost getting reduced?

"

Panini_aux_olives wrote:

Also, without spell echo, it will take sensibly longer to reach stage 3. This is an invisible nerf in tooltip dps.

Forgot about this. This might be the biggest nerf to a skill in a single patch yet. I knew incinerate was OP after 2.0 but I'd say all these nerfs combined makes it worse than pre-2.0. It just seems like swinging the hammer way too hard.

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Wooser69 wrote:

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Panini_aux_olives wrote:

Also, without spell echo, it will take sensibly longer to reach stage 3. This is an invisible nerf in tooltip dps.

Forgot about this. This might be the biggest nerf to a skill in a single patch yet. I knew incinerate was OP after 2.0 but I'd say all these nerfs combined makes it worse than pre-2.0. It just seems like swinging the hammer way too hard.

GGG doesn't know any other way to nerf the "top" abilities then nerf them in as many ways as basically possible.

The only other thing really comparable to this is probably prolif.

"

Wooser69 wrote:

Incinerate nerfed too hard.

While this is true in general it is no problem at all because they are stupid enough to buff bows and bow skills even more. Just grab a mediocre bow, don't give a fuck about defences and kill everything before it enters your screen. That's far more fun than having to stand still all the time waiting for the incinerate stages to build up. Remember: Facerolling with a bow isn't op - it is well balanced and requires a lot of skill! ;)