Put the Crafting back into Crafting. Good RNG vs Bad RNG

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Diabeetusaurusrex2 wrote:

this game is a slot machine. the time from your life being the tokens.

Its also a trial in discipline. Do you RNG your hard earned currency away that took weeks to gather only to get NOTHING in return? or do you excercise discipline and use vorici?


whatever the case i do believe this game has serious flaws. the fun people want to have being gated behind such extremes of wealth that take so long to acquire. hardcore gaming or... a controlled rat maze?

any one know the exchange rate for wasted time?

If you spent your time enjoying the game, you did not waste it. If you spent your time not enjoying the game with the sole objective of farming currency, then you most likely wouldn't enjoy the game even after RNG is good to you.

In other words, if your enjoyment of the game depends strictly on a die roll outcome/result and not on the process, it might be a good time to reaassess why you're playing it.

I stopped counting at 1200 jewellers, this is what is wrong with PoE RNG.

I wouldn't mind it at all if with jewels or fuses you could not get a result worse than what you already have: if I have a 5l and I tried a fuse, I will still have that 5l and can continue using it. This would also mean that I could use a 1000 fuses on the 5l and not see a single change (the lack of feedback will make it seem broken), but I'd still prefer that over what we have now.

With the current mechanics I only attempt to fuse items to 5l/6l, if I am not actually using those items. I'd never again attempt to fuse a 5l that I am using to 6l, one experience with 400 fuses spend and no 5l has taught me better.

having a reliable way of crafting is one of the best thing that can happend to a game like POE. when crafting is gated behind a mountain of RNG people will avoid using their hard erned currency wich is bad for both the economy that becomes saturated of low tier orbs no one want and the players in question becouse its halts their item progression (unless they get lucky)

a reliable crafting system will encourage people to use their crafting material to get the items they want and as a result of this low and mid tier crafting orbs will be less abundant and more desirable effectivly making them a valuable trading currency.

just to be clear crafting dosent mean super items for everyone for a few chaos, voricy is a good example of good crafting, its not cheap but its totaly worth it.



i was thinking of something along this line

add an orb that turns any item into the lv1 white vertion of it, only this items can be crafted with the below system (cant be mixed with the current gambling system).

10 transmutation = pick 1 mod (starts with worst value)

mods upgrade will start costing alteration but each upgrade to next tier will greatly increace the cost. adding new mods will first cost augmentations then regals, then chaos and then exalts.

base item can olso be upgraded for a cost

Part of my suggestion was trying to increase "fun".

Not being able to craft the items you are currently wearing because in all probability the number of links they have will go down renders your item unusable.

So you have to basically craft a secondary and hope that some day it gets better than what you are actually using.

Crafting a 5L item and then what? throw it away by turning it into a 1L item by applying another orb?

Or trying to sell it in a game with no trade system?

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TohtoriKuolema wrote:

I stopped counting at 1200 jewellers, this is what is wrong with PoE RNG.

I used 800 jewellers and still not 6 socketed my chest, after i used vorici but feel like RNG bullsht! I saw so many streamers and friend list and guildes who 6S6L with such a cheap way (good RNG) and they progress after first days, while i just did 6S just today and still can't link that chest (bad RNG)
Plus i have no map drop at all, nothing droping to me, even DS with carto box not helping at all: used many DS find one carto and no higher tier from that carto with such high investment.

It is not craft, when some "lucky RNG" programmed by server or whatever always get what he wanted no matter what, and another play NEVER get anything at all no matter what.

I don't get it. What's the point of Vorici then, who would pay a set number of fusings when you can take a chance and then link @ that set number automatically when you hit it?

Either pay 1500 fusings for a guaranteed 6 link or you test your luck. There is no need for floors or ceilings to further reduce RNG.

Crafting is in such a good spot right now in so many aspects. Taking the risk reward and planning aspect out it is just further casualizing the game. If you try to link your 5L into a 6L with 100 fusings there should be a consequence for poor planning (or the sheer reward for overcoming the unlikely chance that you 6L). You shouldn't get 100 chances to maybe make your item better without any downside whatsoever.

Imo your suggestion makes this type of crafting boring. I do however like the idea of plowing back fusings into the item to make it more valuable to others. Not really in the "this items needs 21 more fusings to 6 link aspect so its worth a 6 link price - 21 fusings etc" but say maybe adding a flat % for extra links with a hard cap at like 30% more likely for better links at a max 3000 fusings or something. So for example every 100 fusings used on the item adds 1% chance for extra links with a cap of 30% chance of extra links @ 3,000 fusings used. This would give people incentive to buy these items while still keeping the crafting process interesting.

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joebagz wrote:

I don't get it. What's the point of Vorici then, who would pay a set number of fusings when you can take a chance and then link @ that set number automatically when you hit it?

Either pay 1500 fusings for a guaranteed 6 link or you test your luck. There is no need for floors or ceilings to further reduce RNG.

Crafting is in such a good spot right now in so many aspects. Taking the risk reward and planning aspect out it is just further casualizing the game. If you try to link your 5L into a 6L with 100 fusings there should be a consequence for poor planning (or the sheer reward for overcoming the unlikely chance that you 6L). You shouldn't get 100 chances to maybe make your item better without any downside whatsoever.

Imo your suggestion makes this type of crafting boring. I do however like the idea of plowing back fusings into the item to make it more valuable to others. Not really in the "this items needs 21 more fusings to 6 link aspect so its worth a 6 link price - 21 fusings etc" but say maybe adding a flat % for extra links with a hard cap at like 30% more likely for better links at a max 3000 fusings or something. So for example every 100 fusings used on the item adds 1% chance for extra links with a cap of 30% chance of extra links @ 3,000 fusings used. This would give people incentive to buy these items while still keeping the crafting process interesting.

Very very few players have 1,500 fuses sitting around to purchase a 6L outright.

Those that do can get immediate gratification, and use of a 6L by getting it instantly.
Means they can tackle harder maps, and get better gear right away.

I'll NEVER get 1,500 fuses in a Temp league, never been lucky enough on the drops and I don't play the Trade/Flip game.

Just suggesting that stepping people BACKWARDS when they spend their hard earned cash is not the best thing to do, from a motivational standpoint.

Imagine going into a Car Shop (in the real world) and asking for an Engine upgrade, to upgrade your V4 motor to a V6. You pay the company $5,000 and end up with a big hole in the floorboard and no motor and it becomes a Fred Flintstone car that you have to peddle with your feet.

As the shop owner takes your money he says, well you could have ended up with a Lamborgini engine, you just got unlucky.

And it's not REDUCING RNG, it's EVENING it out. Putting a bottom end to help the poor sod who got nothing after spending heaps of money, to keep them playing longer, by, well, Grinding more

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RockGod wrote:

Very very few players have 1,500 fuses sitting around to purchase a 6L outright.

Those that do can get immediate gratification, and use of a 6L by getting it instantly.
Means they can tackle harder maps, and get better gear right away.

I'll NEVER get 1,500 fuses in a Temp league, never been lucky enough on the drops and I don't play the Trade/Flip game.

Just suggesting that stepping people BACKWARDS when they spend their hard earned cash is not the best thing to do, from a motivational standpoint.

Imagine going into a Car Shop (in the real world) and asking for an Engine upgrade, to upgrade your V4 motor to a V6. You pay the company $5,000 and end up with a big hole in the floorboard and no motor and it becomes a Fred Flintstone car that you have to peddle with your feet.

As the shop owner takes your money he says, well you could have ended up with a Lamborgini engine, you just got unlucky.

And it's not REDUCING RNG, it's EVENING it out. Putting a bottom end to help the poor sod who got nothing after spending heaps of money, to keep them playing longer, by, well, Grinding more

If your build requires a 6L you should probably look for another build. 6L is an endgoal for that final push and should be hard to obtain at the very least. GGG has been pretty animate about this. There is a reason why a 5L cost 150 fusings and a 6L costs 10x that to autolink. I feel like if someone read this post from the outside they would think a 6L is mandatory when that is very far from the truth.

Again, the folly you describe is the result of poor planning not poor game design. Is this game unfriendly to new players by design? Sure. Is that a bad thing? Debatable.

It is just a mechanic that you must learn over time. Example if I'm trying to 6L a unique chest manually I'm buying another one 5Led or 5 linking one myself before that endeavor to ensure I have a fallback to use while I work towards my 6L. As I level my main skill, I am also leveling a few other copies of that skill so I can still use the level 20 gem for attack and not lose damage while leveling my new gem from 1/20 after the GCP recipe. It is a knowledge game, the more you know the better prepared you can be.

The whole game is built around RNG man. There are no guarantees. This isn't real life. No orb says it will provide a set result on any item in the game except a mirror or an eternal orb. An exalt adds a random mod, divine reolls the brackets randomly etc.

The fact is that endgame crafting IS gambling and I don't find anything wrong with that. We have masters to craft everything else for the most part and the also the convenient option to roll sockets and links WITHOUT RNG. Isn't that enough? With the improved drop rates, divination cards and forsaken masters the game is very possible for SF play now. I just think your over analyzing this that's all.

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joebagz wrote:

I don't get it. What's the point of Vorici then, who would pay a set number of fusings when you can take a chance and then link @ that set number automatically when you hit it?

If thats the case then why not just give Vorici another crafting recipe:

4 jewelers orbs can be used on an item to guarantee that it won't lose sockets but it may stay the same or gain.

4 fusing orbs can be used on an item to guarantee that it won't lose links but it may stay the same or gain.

If you want to add rng maybe something like a 1-5% chance when using either of these recipe's that the item will get chromed..... or something along those lines.