Excited about subclasses, but Juggernaut is laughable

Weird... I thought that Juggernaut was one of the best ascendancy classes yet. The 4% increased damage per endurance charge is amazing, and the fortify bonuses are great too. This class will be fantastic for any tank marauder. I think it'll be pretty common on HC, but less so for SC.

Anyhow, why don't we let the other subclasses come out before we start complaining?

Imho as melee gladiator and champion will be better at defensive than juggernaut only if you are lazy or poor.
Even now you can do character with spell block>60% and fortitude. It's easy and you need only 2 specific items and 1 specific flask.
At lvl 90+ and with lots of currency juggernaut will imo give bigger advantage then gladiator or champion.

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pijanapanda wrote:

Imho as melee gladiator and champion will be better at defensive than juggernaut only if you are lazy or poor.
Even now you can do character with spell block>60% and fortitude. It's easy and you need only 2 specific items and 1 specific flask.
At lvl 90+ and with lots of currency juggernaut will imo give bigger advantage then gladiator or champion.

ya, my 2h axe cyclone cant block, and I have 2 cyclone 6 links. One is regular damage cyclone, the other is curse on hit enfeeble + fortify + blind. I cant take out my fortify support and put in the support that gives me 2k base armour + cant be frozen or slowed by chilled, tar zombies, temp chains, suppressing fire etc.

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pijanapanda wrote:

Imho as melee gladiator and champion will be better at defensive than juggernaut

Right, jugger bad, worse in each and every aspect.

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StrongWitchCraft wrote:

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pijanapanda wrote:

Imho as melee gladiator and champion will be better at defensive than juggernaut

Right, jugger bad, worse in each and every aspect.

LOL, no. You are wrong.

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pijanapanda wrote:

Imho as melee gladiator and champion will be better at defensive than juggernaut only if you are lazy or poor.
Even now you can do character with spell block>60% and fortitude. It's easy and you need only 2 specific items and 1 specific flask.
At lvl 90+ and with lots of currency juggernaut will imo give bigger advantage then gladiator or champion.

Free fortify is free fortify, you can even use it as caster or archer Champion, and be uber-tanky with ever going into melee range every 4 sec to get a buff. You can use it for "hybrid" attacks like Molten Strike, that dont benefit from Forify gem. And you will never be suddenly oneshotten (devourer, etc) when fortify wasnt up. Not to mention 20% increased fortify effect (26% instead of 20%). 15% damage taken when taounted shouldnt be underestimated, as it's actually a multiplicative bonus (same to curses and probably additive to them), also it apllies for whole party.

You can do block/spellblock around 60% pretty easily, but from then, you struggle for every 1%. And the difference between 60 and 75% is 1.6 times more hits taken. Gladiator allows you easily get that, ans easily get spellblock without specific uniques.

Juggernaut - IS there anything special, a "unique" bonus he provides that needs huge investments otherwise?
Maybe, a 100% stun thresold? But armour characters can just get US and become immune, without much downside.
!000 accuracy? But you can get same from 3 mods on your rare gear, or even simplier for non-crit build (RT).
Double armour from chest? Well, unless there will be unique chest with 5k+ armour on it, i dont find that worth it.
10% for end. charge on hit and +1 charge? Nice, but that 10% wont give you stable charge generation, and +1 chrse is just a 4% phys reduction.
Damage/regen when have fortify? Man, just pick few damage+regen nodes from general tree.
So, what left? You cant move slower than your base speed? Well, moving with base speed is considered SLOW for most players. Even in Temporal Chains or Chilling Ground map you can keep Quicksilver flask most of the time and you movement speed will be NOT lower than base. The only place you'll feel that passive, will be Temp. Chains+Chilling Ground maps. But that's double mod combo, and getting an Ascendance class just to overcome that is SILLY!

I'm saying only about melee characters. 20% inc fortify effect = 24 reduced damage. Its like +1 endu charge. Conqueror effect applies for whole party? How you know that?
Do you REALLY need 75 spell block? In this game spells are not so often and most deadly of them are unblockable. So i don't really think this 15% make so big difference.
1000 accuracy is huge, basically its all what you need.
Double armour from chest. With 2k armour chest bonus will be huge. In build with no shield this passive give you basically +40-50% total armour.
Also think about +30 sec IC and how flexible Juger tree is (its 4 x 2 passives and only 1x4 passives so you can take what you want).

Personally I just find there should have endu charge time increased in the nods.

Those boosts seems pretty weak compared to others because most of the other classes have almost permanent bonuses.

Put a 15% endurance charges duration increase and we could get something interesting

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Double armour from chest? Well, unless there will be unique chest with 5k+ armour on it, i dont find that worth it.

I think its worth it man, for sure, esp for 2h chars that dont get shield defense nodes. My 2h axe hybrid armour + evasion build will get over 6k armour from that node, if you are a pure armour character using determination you can get an extra 9k armour from that node.

If I understood the game mechanics, the unstoppable keystone does not grand advantages with T-Chains. It should provides freeze 'immunity' and advantages on tar and chilled.