People listing items and not selling them

I don't see flippers as a problem as long as they announce they're buying stuff for 20-30-or-whatever-% underpriced value. They're legit and they do help lots of people (they did help me in the past).

The problem is the ammount of people announcing and pricing named items in the boards that annoy me.

I.e.: "WTB shavs 1ex headhunter 10ex kaom's heart 1c".

That's annoying, disgusting, and whenever I want to trade something (buy or sell, whatever), it's annoying as hell because people think those are their real prices and they're not.

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jackof8lades wrote:

Yeah cause the free unregulated market concept worked so well in the real world.
Exept it didnt its a flawed concept to begin whit sinds a society thrives by cooparation,while free market just promotes selfishness and only benefits a few ppl at the top.

It's not really a flawed concept at all. As long as a market remains free, it works. If the government leaves innocent people the fuck alone, that's half the battle. The other half of the battle is ensuring the government removes the kind of thugish behavior which would remove freedom from the economy - that is, those who use force to compel the action of another.

It isn't a free market which promotes self-interest, brother. Self-interest does a more than sufficient job of promoting itself. You can either design an economy which acknowledges and incorporates this truth, or you can design a fucked up economy based on a false view of human nature.

I can't take it, I'm going to post. Normally I let the slew of "flipping is a service" posts fly by the radar, but this time I have to blankly state that the rationale used to justify these kinds of statements does not apply to PoE and shows a very poor understanding of economic theory. AND that if economic theory is the persuasive force invoked, the need for such a service itself implies a failing market. What the OP is suggesting is a private solution to problems with public goods, mostly information asymmetry. It would have to be 3rd party though, and would likely be met with the same resistance that currency exchange site met. Unfortunately, any solution is unlikely to be made and PoE "economy" will continue on without Pareto efficiency.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

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comm_il_vec wrote:

remember: it takes two to flip

Wrong. It takes three. Seller, flipper and buyer. All three are satisfied by the transaction. The only people who get butt-hurt over it are people who aren't involved in the trade at all.

They aren't. Like I say people just don't wanna waste their time playing a trading simulator. People opt to choose the lesser evil because there isn't a better option. How are they satisfied? if you ask any of them I am sure these sellers would want more money for their goods and buyers wanna pay less. Flippers doesn't add any value to the product. There isn't an "free" unregulated market, it is an regulated free market, GGG control the economy to a certain extent. GGG could very well cut out the middleman and benefit the buyers and sellers, guess they don't wanna.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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jackof8lades wrote:

Yeah cause the free unregulated market concept worked so well in the real world.
Exept it didnt its a flawed concept to begin whit sinds a society thrives by cooparation,while free market just promotes selfishness and only benefits a few ppl at the top.

It's not really a flawed concept at all. As long as a market remains free, it works. If the government leaves innocent people the fuck alone, that's half the battle. The other half of the battle is ensuring the government removes the kind of thugish behavior which would remove freedom from the economy - that is, those who use force to compel the action of another.

It isn't a free market which promotes self-interest, brother. Self-interest does a more than sufficient job of promoting itself. You can either design an economy which acknowledges and incorporates this truth, or you can design a fucked up economy based on a false view of human nature.

So in which world do you live? cause in this world my point is proven everyday.
ppl cant be trusted whit freedom.
And a free market does promote self interest well lets jus say it creates an enviroment in which selfish behaviour is more rewarded then cooparative behaviour thus ppl will get more and more selfish which is only natural.

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deathflower wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

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comm_il_vec wrote:

remember: it takes two to flip

Wrong. It takes three. Seller, flipper and buyer. All three are satisfied by the transaction.

They aren't. People opt to choose the lesser evil because there isn't a better option.

this - and especially on the 'lower' end:

the 'seller': if such ("mass"-)trades belong to his 'business' (massive farmer), they just doesnt care about maximum/realistic values - their 'income' sums up even on that level. The 'Low-Joe' as seller of that single high valuable item he dropped but dont need, on the other hand, is only 'satisfied' on getting lowballed if he doesnt know it better.
the buyer always pays more then if he could buy directly (for the "producer price") Why should they be satisfied for paying any 'fee'? There's no real justification for 'shops' having closing times caused by timezone differences... (and keep in mind that this 'fee' can equal up to multiple times of the 'base value' of the item(s)...)

"Paying" (as example) 5 chaos for an generic unique that otherwise sells for 1C (or even 5 ex for a more rare one of 1..2ex) just to "compensate" the flipper's effort to be a trader, is stil and just a ridiculous fraud.

(its obvious, that the flippers are satisfied with their deal... even as they tend to cry about their incredible effort) ^^

Flippers are different from scammer.

If they bought an item for 5 chaos and you bought it for 5 exalts, they are under no obligation to sell it to you for what they bought it for.

Why did the person sell it as 5 chaos, why did you agree to the value that the item was 5 exalts and bought it.

It takes actually multiple parties for flipping to happen.

If the average item sells for 1c and you bought it for 5c, who fault is it. I mean it's not like they forced you trade with them.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Flippers are different from scammer.

If they bought an item for 5 chaos and you bought it for 5 exalts, they are under no obligation to sell it to you for what they bought it for.

Why did the person sell it as 5 chaos, why did you agree to the value that the item was 5 exalts and bought it.

It takes actually multiple parties for flipping to happen.

If the average item sells for 1c and you bought it for 5c, who fault is it. I mean it's not like they forced you trade with them.

I'll happily walk down and buy a loaf of bread and a can of Fresh Up from a petrol station, just to save the hassle of getting in the car and going to the supermarket. Yeah, supermarket is cheaper, but I ain't getting all dressed up and fancy looking for a loaf of bread.

Sorry. What were we talking about?

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eXecut1on wrote:

Hey, I think we all agree that those are annoying as shit, listing items on poe.trade and not selling them. Let's make a compendium with those guys and maybe they will think twice before doing this.

EDIT: To clarify: I am talking about those people who list their item as the cheapest on poe.trade to drag the price down and then refuse to sell it for that price.

EDIT2: Again: I don't care about people lowballing or selling their items expensive, my problem is strict the fact that I have to whisper multiple people and never know whether one will respond or not when I want to buy something. It's like going into a store and wanting to buy a bottle of water and the cashiers refuse to sell you the water. Now you have to go to the next store, where exactly the same happens. This is just plain annoying, you can't put a price tag on something and not sell it afterwards. It's about the time being wasted dealing with such bullshit rather than the price.

What were you buying?

what was b/o on item?

how much did you offer to pay?


i am asking since i dont respond to people atm a lot also, since for items i sell for 3 ex i get 10-15 c offers all day for example