Better Trade System - abandon all your hope after reading latest QA

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Dawmz wrote:

Think about what you're saying for a second, you're implying that they didn't do themselves a web page to announce tempests/warbands by pure laziness and because they knew 3rd party will do it for them. That's a totally stupid statement. I guess it would take a GGG intern 2 hours to do this.
The reality is that they'd rather have players talk about tempest or warbands on chat channels in game, in their guilds, through their status in game but they can't forbid people to do 3rd party websites for this stuff. What are they gonna do ?

Uhhm, no. You just said that.

I'm saying they designed the leagues on purpose the way they did because they have a boner for community 3rd party integration.

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Dawmz wrote:

These leagues do not _require_ 3rd party sites... it's just a convenience for players. There are dedicated global channels for tempest and warbands, you can join them if you want. 3rd party sites just improves the experience as much as sites like poestats do.

These leagues do not _require_ i use the Chaos recipe or other things ingame that make my expericane better either! But at the same time i would be completely gimping myself not to use them!

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

The design of the current temp leagues should give you some food for thought. They were designed around the requirement to use 3rd party sites, both of them.

It would be really stupid to ignore 3rd party sites/programs when developing/balancing your game.

That's a whole lot different to designing leagues which will require 3rd party sites which don't yet exist but will be created for the purpose thereafter.

Ah now I see what you mean (those Tempest/Warbands sites). But do you really feel those sites are required to play the leagues unless you want to do the corresponding challenges as fast as possible?

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Xavderion wrote:

Ah now I see what you mean (those Tempest/Warbands sites). But do you really feel those sites are required to play the leagues unless you want to do the corresponding challenges as fast as possible?

for me, temp leagues are about completing the challenges. which is really bad this time if you don't like trading as f.e. corrupting jewels and identifying unique items requires it (found 1 warbands unique so far).

Wasn't it always the case ? I don't really follow the challenges since i don't care about them but I remember that there were challenges in the past requiring to identify a ton of uniques items which definitely seemed impossible without trading.
For the tempests challenge, I'm pretty sure you'll fill up all the checkboxes without any 3rd party help. Even the rarest tempests are not that rare that you won't encounter them randomly. Dunno about the warbands stuff.
Oh and if you want to know if there is a "good" tempest but don't wanna go to a 3rd party website, there's an easy solution ; open the trade chat between h:00 and h:15, if you see people trying to buy a specific low lvl map, there's probably a IIR/Corrupting/XP tempest there.

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Xavderion wrote:

But do you really feel those sites are required to play the leagues unless you want to do the corresponding challenges as fast as possible?

Yea, imo they are required, not just to get challenges fast, but to get them at all (encounters + uniques).

I've sunk around 200 - 250 hrs of mapping in Warbands, most of this time playing maps randomly. While doing so I encountered warbands bosses exactly three times. The chances to complete challenges this way are practically zero. If you use the site + chat channel, to get a fast fix on 3+ dot maps, the frequency of boss encounters will go up like 1000% and it's the only way Warbands has any impact on your mapping.

E:
The chat channel without site tracking would be practically useless, as you would need people to write down reports and be willing to constantly report 3+ dot areas back to anyone who would ask. It's obvious GGG got used to people fixing their game with 3rd party software.

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Ontopic:

From the perspective of someone who trades just a little, to cover mapping expenses, the current trading system does the job ok. No improvements are required.

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Xavderion wrote:

Ah now I see what you mean (those Tempest/Warbands sites). But do you really feel those sites are required to play the leagues unless you want to do the corresponding challenges as fast as possible?

Or, say you don't want to open your one and only x level (highest) map that you sunk y level (extortionate) amount of currency into and it be a veil of the night tempest? But regardless, it's a competitive, ladder game is it not? The competition is a thing, no?

You could ignore the sites, I mean you don't have to compete, you don't have to socialise, you don't have to trade even. You can just play the game as normal, brick your maps on silly fixed-for-the-hour zone tempests, take the global (read all leagues) divine drop nerf on the chin (in the ass) while everyone and their weta is opening 10 instances in the lab of the current corruption tempest for 6 links (divines) galore.

The 3rd party sites are totally not a requirement. But they are an intended result and resource of the design of the leagues.

Back to the point and why the example was brought up. 3rd party sites, tools, programs, scripts, being something that a person ITT (and they are not alone) wasn't happy with being 'required' you use to play PoE; that isn't going to change.

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SjakaWaka wrote:

So they instead of improving trade , they make it so that the external tools could be improved.
i personally don't see the problem with this.

trade is easy enough as is if you ask me.

PS: am i the only 1 here who finds it funny that OP complains about trade in this game and then mentions D3?

The reason he mentions D3 is that D3 no longer relies on trade and has gameplay balanced around that fact. You are now relegated to self-found play but the content and drops are greatly adjusted to that system. If you are frustrated by trade system in PoE, or its lack thereof, you might bring D3 where such frustration does not exist. This does not mean D3 is better game than PoE, it just has a system of gear progression that might suit some people better.

Reaction to OP:
I'm also quite disappointed by GGG's resignation on any sort of in-game trade system. It is good they will support external option to facilitate trading but this also means we will be growing more and more dependent on those outside solutions. You already have to submit your log-in information to your account if you want to use software that automates shop creation. You can reduce security exposure by creating separate account for trading, which again requires you to either be in a guild to trade items between those characters via guild stash tab or utilize middle man to transfer those items. Players should not be forced to go to such length to effectively and safely trade in a game that boasts about economy being at its heart.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

But they are an intended result and resource of the design of the leagues.

And Chris plainly said that he _espects_ such tools to be created, when announced Tempest league. So yes, clearly this league was designed with assumption in mind, that community will develop tools for spreading information about tempests.

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Chris wrote:

Tempests can also affect end-game Maps. Because there's no world map for maps, the community will need to collaborate to share information about which valuable tempests affect which areas at the moment.

You are reading a lot into chris' words to make your point. Expecting the community to "collaborate" just means what it says : they expected people to talk about the active tempest warbands between themselves through various communication channels, be it in game or out of the game.
I don't think they really like the 3rd party sites since they go against communication / players interaction, which is something they want to happen. But then again, what can they do against it ?