۞ Shajirr's Investment Fund ۞ [CLOSED]

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Perq wrote:

Well, I think people can sell their items on their own, so that is that.

I agree ;)

I simply provided an option.
For me it is more beneficial if people invest in pure currency, because then I can use it right away, while with items I have to obviously sell them first.

One thing to remember is that while playing in another league it can be annoying to switch to a different league for trades. Plus sometimes you have to deal with people offering shady item trades to you instead of currency, which work in their benefit and not yours. Although the reverse can also be true, when they offer very good deals.

You sound legit, I'm willing to invest my faith..I'll give you 10ex and how long before you pay me back 20ex? lol

Hi,

I would be interested to invest an item.
We would have to discuss the current value of it and how we could compensate eventual in- or deflation.

A question though: When and how often do I get a shareholder report? Will I have to keep track of return rate myself? Can we have a reinvest system where the profits from my share are directly reinvested to add to my initial share?

whisper me ingame plz.


regards

edit:

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momonami5 wrote:

don't get it list your items on poe trade and make the sells your self lol your giving him the item to sell on poe trade and take some of your money makes no sense at all.

can't believe people are this dumb.

Well, I am notoriously lazy which is why I don´t want to bother with trading on TWO seperate leagues. Additionally I don´t play standard frequently so I don´t have any benefit from my stuff collecting dust... If OP sells my stuff and keeps creating additional wealth from it he definitely deserves a share.

can´t believe ppl are too dense to see this

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Azdrubel wrote:

Hi,

A question though: When and how often do I get a shareholder report? Will I have to keep track of return rate myself? Can we have a reinvest system where the profits from my share are directly reinvested to add to my initial share?

This is how it works by default.
Any profit is automatically reinvested by being added to your share.

I will keep track and publish both initial investments and the current shares, so you can always check how much your share had increased. Return rate will be added once more data will be gathered.

Report will be published weekly, on Sundays mostly.
Profit made can be updated more often if any large sales occur.

Interesting project, looks like a lot of work for you to track every detail but if you have fun with virtual economy and spreadsheets... why not.
Problem for investors is: no safety except your word.
If I had some wealth, I'd try it with a small amount. Selling stuff myself didn't work out very well because you have to put effort into trading, and for me, this is wasted time. I'd rather kill some monsters.
So, basically I like the idea. Good luck!


Edit: at first glance, I also thought it's forum spam. I'd propose to replace "money" with "currency", should make it clear that ingame-wealth is meant and not some kind of real-life-scam.

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Araycan wrote:

This can happen if someone decides to earn money using high-risk RNG methods like crafting.
Then it is possible to spend most currency without getting anything in return.

Trading on the other hand is low-risk and almost never incurs any losses. Even if you don't earn profit, you can almost in all cases resell the item for the same price you bought it with. There are no taxes to deal with, which is extremely beneficial.
So it isn't like all investments will just vanish into thin air suddenly. They are all backed up by items, items which will sell.

Shares are calculated like this - my share is the buying price of all my items that were bought for making profit, before any other investments. Other's shares are at first equal to their initial investments. Then, usually weekly, I publish the profit that was made, and redistribute it between all fund's shares according to the rule outlined in the main post.

Just because it is "low risk" doesn't mean there is 0 risk. What happens if my 40 exalt items becomes 20 exalts due to patch/nerf/build becoming unpopular ect. Do I return back my 40 exalts, who sucks up the loss in profits, what is multiple items or multiple items drop in price and ripples. What if no item sell? How will you redistribute shares between multiple people? Prices of currency and coveting it back and forth can change meaning of what would be a proper share of this week or the week what I invested.

We do not know your "share" or the buying price of items since they can flux and go up and down. We do not know our share standing compared to other people. If there are 3 people and you. Each of you invest 10 exalts in total 40 exalts. Does each person own "25 shares" and thus "25% of all profits."

You also take a 10% tax on top of shares of the profits, so thus there is a tax. If your using currency, currency rates can flux and increase or decrease ect. What if you don't have enough currency or items for someone to withdraw their funds + profits at anytime they want(a problem with multiple people shorting each other profits with they all withdraw at the same time)? If the company grows large enough where you have large amount of items being invested how does that work out? Massive overheard is the large amount of trades by a single person, fuck up one time tracking stuff and there will be hell.

I'm not saying your legit, but I don't want people to be fooled that "investment companies" are "easy."

Then there's trusting you with large amounts of currency from multiple people. Like my currency isn't backed up by any government or laws if you decide to up and run away with it.

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Wraeklops wrote:

Interesting project, looks like a lot of work for you to track every detail but if you have fun with virtual economy and spreadsheets... why not.
Problem for investors is: no safety except your word.
If I had some wealth, I'd try it with a small amount. Selling stuff myself didn't work out very well because you have to put effort into trading, and for me, this is wasted time. I'd rather kill some monsters.
So, basically I like the idea. Good luck!


Edit: at first glance, I also thought it's forum spam. I'd propose to replace "money" with "currency", should make it clear that ingame-wealth is meant and not some kind of real-life-scam.

Well hopefully in the future people will be able to just ask current/former investors.

Actually trading takes significantly less time compared to just farming that same amount of currency. Plus most of the time you still play the game normally regardless when you just wait for sales.

Yeah money->currency is a good idea, changed the title.

While I don't believe you're a scammer, who would just take my exalteds, I have to ask if you have any credentials as a trader?

It's a bit difficult to see this as an investment oppotunity if I don't know anything about you or your capabilities.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Just because it is "low risk" doesn't mean there is 0 risk. What happens if my 40 exalt items becomes 20 exalts due to patch/nerf/build becoming unpopular ect. Do I return back my 40 exalts, who sucks up the loss in profits, what is multiple items or multiple items drop in price and ripples.

The only time I can remember this happened is the great CoE fiasco. So if I somehow invested all my curreny into buying tons of CoE's only and suddenly the nerf hit it would have been really bad.

Investing into a variety types of items usually helps to mostly avoid such risks - even if something decreases in value, overall it wouldn't be a significant hit.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

What if no item sell? How will you redistribute shares between multiple people? Prices of currency and coveting it back and forth can change meaning of what would be a proper share of this week or the week what I invested.

Usually I try to use only popular enough items that are sure to be sold. If something doesn't, then again I can always resell for the same price I bought the item with, and just get a different type of item instead. Since there are no taxes, this process doesn't result in any losses.

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We do not know your "share" or the buying price of items since they can flux and go up and down. We do not know our share standing compared to other people. If there are 3 people and you. Each of you invest 10 exalts in total 40 exalts. Does each person own "25 shares" and thus "25% of all profits."

Well once an item is bought I use that price at that time for determining my share.
Note that this will be done only once, initially - later on I will just update my share the same way as for everyone else - by distributing the profit that was made.

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You also take a 10% tax on top of shares of the profits, so thus there is a tax.

There is no tax. I only take 10% commission if people invest an item instead of currency, because I have to liquidate it first. If you invest in currency it goes to your share as 100%

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If your using currency, currency rates can flux and increase or decrease ect. What if you don't have enough currency or items for someone to withdraw their funds + profits at anytime they want(a problem with multiple people shorting each other profits with they all withdraw at the same time)? If the company grows large enough where you have large amount of items being invested how does that work out? Massive overheard is the large amount of trades by a single person, fuck up one time tracking stuff and there will be hell.

Currency rates don't really affect your share in any way. The only time when they matter is when you want to retrieve a non-even number of ex, then it is done using the current average conversion rate.
As I said in the first post, if someone decides to retrieve their share, he does it one week in advance. Usually it should be enough time to get the required amount of currency.
Basically I have to not fuck up. I have a trade log, with backups, so there is little chance of losing it. Plus there is always a chat log to cross-check stuff.

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Then there's trusting you with large amounts of currency from multiple people. Like my currency isn't backed up by any government or laws if you decide to up and run away with it.

Well even IRL you aren't really completely safe either, there are numerous ways people can get away with your money even when you are supposedly protected by the law.

I can say that since I plan to play for the long time, gaining a bad reputation is simply not in my interest as it would hurt me more than any short-term gains I might make.

People will be able to judge by the fund's performance.
Plus later you will be able to ask current/former investors to confirm the information provided here.

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The only time I can remember this happened is the great CoE fiasco. So if I somehow invested all my curreny into buying tons of CoE's only and suddenly the nerf hit it would have been really bad.

Investing into a variety types of items usually helps to mostly avoid such risks - even if something decreases in value, overall it wouldn't be a significant hit.

Skirting the question, what do you do when you take a hit? What happens when you take a significant hit? You only talk about what happens when it goods, there's no talk on what happens if things go downhill.

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Usually I try to use only popular enough items that are sure to be sold. If something doesn't, then again I can always resell for the same price I bought the item with, and just get a different type of item instead. Since there are no taxes, this process doesn't result in any losses.

You cannot "always resell the same price you bought the item with." Nor does the person sometime want a "different type of item." The process doesn't result any losses if you manage to sell the item the same price or higher.

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Well once an item is bought I use that price at that time for determining my share.
Note that this will be done only once, initially - later on I will just update my share the same way as for everyone else - by distributing the profit that was made.

Who has that metric, your the only that determines WHAT is YOUR share and you pay yourself and determine what is the "price you bought it at." There is no system of checks and balances and you can easily fudge numbers.

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There is no tax. I only take 10% commission if people invest an item instead of currency, because I have to liquidate it first. If you invest in currency it goes to your share as 100%

Just because you call it commission doesn't mean it's not a tax. ~.~

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Currency rates don't really affect your share in any way. The only time when they matter is when you want to retrieve a non-even number of ex, then it is done using the current average conversion rate.
As I said in the first post, if someone decides to retrieve their share, he does it one week in advance. Usually it should be enough time to get the required amount of currency.
Basically I have to not fuck up. I have a trade log, with backups, so there is little chance of losing it. Plus there is always a chat log to cross-check stuff.

Current currency rates doesn't mean it was the same that you originally invested compared to the time you sold that particular item unless we get share of profits regrade-less if my original investment sold or helped you to begin with. If my share is 3 exalts but this week exalt is 60 chaos to 1 ex as oppose to 65 chaos to 1 ex of last week. Can I ask for you 65x chaos x 3 compared to the week I originally invested or do we do this week which technically I'm jipped. What if after you split your shares the currency you invested in goes down in price compared to the requested currency that the investors wanted to be paid in. Do you just lose out on money paying out people?

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Well even IRL you aren't really completely safe either, there are numerous ways people can get away with your money even when you are supposedly protected by the law.

I can say that since I plan to play for the long time, gaining a bad reputation is simply not in my interest as it would hurt me more than any short-term gains I might make.

People will be able to judge by the fund's performance.
Plus later you will be able to ask current/former investors to confirm the information provided here.

Current/former investors don't run the business, they just provide feedback of they made money or not. Nor are they valid people to confirm if you are safe or not. There is nothing stopping you from growing big and then cashing out by stealing everyone shit all at once. Obviously your not going to cash out when your small. People do it all of the time in real-life and you aren't any different. We are talking about a game where if you made off with 1k exalts, GGG wouldn't do a single thing to you and you will still be able to trade completely freely outside of the people you upset.

Personally I don't care if people invest in you or not, I'm just merely pointing out your business plan sounds too good to be true like everything will be perfect all of the time and sunshine and rainbows. The people that even invested in you are just giving you items to sell for them and you take 10% off the "profits." That isn't even investing, they are literally just too lazy to sell the item themselves. They are paying you a fee for a service you are doing.

Besides you have 0 credentials or history, like why are you doing this to begin with. Obv if you have the perfect plan to always make profit why aren't you right now? I don't see a history of you yourself making profits to prove that you can. I don't see a general business plan or shown skill of how you do things. If I gave you 100 exalts do you even know what to do with it? Have you even handled that much currency and know how to deal with things on that scale.

If you want people to seriously give you actual currency your going to need to put a little bit more (okay alot more) work then just a fourm post with a summary of the vague idea what's going on.