Hall of Grandmasters : The Unique map (Dont try it)

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Dan_GGG wrote:

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

Dan_GGG, any chance that, as suggested earlier in the thread, you add a warning to the current flavour text, e.g.

Our warnings have a history of being disbelieved.

We called this map a "deathtrap" in news posts about it. Then when it was released and Hegemony beat it, we got a lot of feedback that the map was too easy and that we'd nerfed the Grandmasters too much.

Well, this is a computer games forum. Is it even possible to add any content to a game that a certain vocal minority not will decry as too easy or any change that isn't considered a nerf to something? (And if it isn't a change but something introduced for the first time, we get that weird internet phenomenon known as a 'pre-nerf'.)

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There was also feedback where people didn't believe that Oba's Cursed Trove would actually be fatal. People died to it early on and asked us to specify that fatal actually meant "fatal" and not just "hazardous".

At least with Oba's Cursed Trove you do warn in the place that is important, namely where modifiers are listed ("Area becomes fatal after some time"), so see comment above.

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So I'm not sure it would be that valuable to add one, especially if it broke the fourth wall.
The flavour text already kind of does this in a non-fourth wall breaking way, by telling you that the Grandmasters are the toughest fighters ever.

I would disagree.

There is a huge difference between non-4th wall-breaking flavour text, which in computer games seldom bears any relevance to the difficulty of content (as all stronger enemies are generally described as dangerous, deadly, and undefeated at the level one encounters them at), and a warning in the list of modifiers (not flavour text) that a map is fatal.

Having fluffly flavour text saying "these are some of the toughest figthers ever, can you beat them?" is a warning that has as little bearing as "for the last decade nobody has visited this haunted graveyard and lived" and other typical CRPG warnings that really mean, "but you are totally going to do so, because you are a hero, right?".

Or, if you want to look at Path of Exile, all those warnings we get about Merveil before we run her over in the blink of an eye as we progress through the main chapters of the game.

Or Daresso*, or King Kaom the killer of hundreds (or thousands, or whatever), or...


I can certainly understand the desire not to have some 4th wall breaking comments in the fluff text, but in the end, the only non-fluffy information players have to go by is: level 71, unique, "Contains Immortalized Grandmasters". If it said level 82 players would expect it to be very dangerous - as it is now, unless you have out-of-game knowledge of the map, there's no reason to expect it to be anything but a quite difficult level 71 map with some special twist concerning enemies known as Immortalized Grandmasters.

As an alternative to adding 4th wall flavour text, it could be stated directly in the list of modifiers, which is where important information is usually present. I.e. a second line,

Contains Immortalized Grandmasters
Area is more dangerous than map-level indicates.


* Though admittedly in his case the evidence is mixed. I am both told that he's approximately the best at fighting, ever, and reliably informed that he would have been proud at my performance in being able to beat Vagan at destroying wooden target dummies, when Vagan uses a honking sword and I have a flamethrower. It is possible that Daresso has low standards.

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Dan_GGG wrote:

...so I didn't want to make anyone's AI less deadly than they could be :)

I like the way you think :-p

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Dan_GGG wrote:

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

Dan_GGG, any chance that, as suggested earlier in the thread, you add a warning to the current flavour text, e.g.

Our warnings have a history of being disbelieved.

We called this map a "deathtrap" in news posts about it. Then when it was released and Hegemony beat it, we got a lot of feedback that the map was too easy and that we'd nerfed the Grandmasters too much.

There was also feedback where people didn't believe that Oba's Cursed Trove would actually be fatal. People died to it early on and asked us to specify that fatal actually meant "fatal" and not just "hazardous".

So basically you got (and listened to?) feedback that one map was too easy because a ridiculously overpowered streamer beat it and mocked a bunch of high end supporters while doing so, and that another was too hard because some people don't know the meaning of words.

And they wonder why I don't let myself get into Mapping...

If only that was the problem with maps.

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Dan_GGG wrote:

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

(and listened to?)

Nah, we had anticipated someone being able to farm the map and had already balanced the rewards accordingly, so no update was required.

Yeah, that didn't go unnoticed, LMAO.


Someone with a multi-exalt PvP build in standard will be able to farm this, let's make the rewards suck for everyone.

part of this game is learn from your mistakes. Now you know this map and what it is like. It meant purely as a challenge for fun, not a PvE xp grindfest. And really you are lvl 85 and 88 which means it takes you less than 1 hour to gain those lost xp again.

You had some fun (at I did when I tried out that map) and you lost nearly nothing. Is it really that bad?