Immunity's are a fundamental bad design considering recent changes.

"

diablofdb wrote:

I remember playing Diablo 2 at Hell,

All mobs had one immune (fire, ligthning, cold poison etc...) Ghost were all immune to physical and rare mobs could have 2-3 immunity :)

It doesn't mean that the same mistake must be repeated here, right ?

Oh noes, double post, i'm sorry guys =(

Wow, this forum is better than a Spanish soap opera. Why wasn't I active here sooner?!

It's a shame the State of Exile ep35 talked to Chris about stuff that nobody really cared about or already knew for the most part.

Nobody asked the hard questions.

"

diablofdb wrote:

I remember playing Diablo 2 at Hell,

All mobs had one immune (fire, ligthning, cold poison etc...) Ghost were all immune to physical and rare mobs could have 2-3 immunity :)

And as a result half the players played as Hammerdin (50%phys, 50%ele) and the other half as Blizzsorc (100%cold and run Mephisto until your eyes fall out of their sockets). Best design...

"

EAKZOI wrote:

"

diablofdb wrote:

I remember playing Diablo 2 at Hell,

All mobs had one immune (fire, ligthning, cold poison etc...) Ghost were all immune to physical and rare mobs could have 2-3 immunity :)

It doesn't mean that the same mistake must be repeated here, right ?

The same mistake is not being repeated here though. In D2 enemies were immune to damage. You literally couldn't kill certain mobs without some pretty hefty build gymnastics. Once they added immunities to everything the game was pretty much dead to me as it lost any semblance of fun.

Here in POE the immunities are just to secondary effects such as curses - you can still kill the mobs just fine. I'm fine with the less-impactful immunites we have because I remember what happened with D2. I wouldn't mind them going away, and I definitely don't want it taken any further, but for now it is fine IMO.

I don't see the problem? There were always mods that were impossible to run for some builds. So nothing new here imo. In the end it is as it ever was - get a mod you don't like or your char is unable to do - reroll. Rinse and repeat a few times if you are unlucky.

I remember back when I was talking of monsters having immunity to curse and stun, and positing the idea of a "monsters immune to freeze." I wonder if GGG saw that and failed to realize I was speaking of COMPARISONS. I guess we'll see soon enough if they put in a "monsters are immune to critical hits" affix. (which would have ALL of you whining)

That's the big problem: a lot of these affixes for maps are NOT a challenge; they are just a "build check;" You either fall into a group where it has no serious, meaningful effect on you, and in which case ANY quantity bonus it provides is thus "free," but on the OTHER side... If you actually BUILT AROUND that mechanic, that affix is an automatic re-roll.

Skipping entire parts of the game is not "skill." Having parts of the game that outright BLOCK otherwise perfectly-good builds is just outright bad design. There's tons of affixes and affix ideas that CAN be tackled by the majority of builds with some good play, but outright immunity to something isn't one of those cases. A few other examples that would highlight just how bad this is, as possible affixes that would affect ANY of you:

• Players cannot cast spells, only use attacks
• Players cannot use warcries
• Players cannot summon totems
• Players cannot score critical hits
• Players cannot generate (endurance/power/frenzy) charges
• Monsters all have Resolute Technique

All of the above are clearly rather stupid ideas: SURE, there's lots of builds for which those are only "nice," but for most of you, I'd wager you're relying on at LEAST one of the above right now.

GGG needs to step back, take a look at what affixes actually add CHALLENGE rather than filter out builds. That way mapping becomes more about GOOD PLAY rather than playing one of the tiny number of cookie-cutter builds that isn't screwed over. 200 gems and 1,300 passives don't mean much when the bulk of those options are "wrong choices."

"

diablofdb wrote:

All mobs had one immune (fire, ligthning, cold poison etc...) Ghost were all immune to physical and rare mobs could have 2-3 immunity :)

This was perhaps the single thing Diablo 2 did REALLY wrong. It utterly killed build diversity. Ever hear of Lightning sorcs? Of course you didn't, because half the mobs in Act 3/4/5 were immune to it. The game had a huge range of really cool attacks and spells... And all but a handful were next to useless because of immunities. With elements, at least, PoE was wise to cap all mobs to 75% resistance.

"

Nobake wrote:

The same mistake is not being repeated here though. In D2 enemies were immune to damage. You literally couldn't kill certain mobs without some pretty hefty build gymnastics. Once they added immunities to everything the game was pretty much dead to me as it lost any semblance of fun.

Here in POE the immunities are just to secondary effects such as curses - you can still kill the mobs just fine. I'm fine with the less-impactful immunites we have because I remember what happened with D2. I wouldn't mind them going away, and I definitely don't want it taken any further, but for now it is fine IMO.

I did a quick check of your characters to confirm before saying this, but... All your builds are cookie-cutter as hell. (Crit staff, flame totem? Seriously?) So OF COURSE for you, things like curses, leech, status effects, stun, are merely icing on the cake. Watch how quick you'd get up in arms if the game made a "monsters are immune to critical hits" mod, though.

In Diablo 2, there weren't other widespread mechanics; it basically all boiled down to what type of damage it dealt. So of course the only viable immunities that meant anything would be outright damage immunities. And these entirely made a lot of builds wholly unviable; Paladins had to either go Sacred Hammer, or occasionally Zeal. Sorceresses always had to go for ice spells.

Just because it's not affecting you, doesn't mean it's not a big deal. A better comparison is if you were in Diablo 2, playing a Hammerdin, and going "I don't see what the big deal with immunities is!"

In short: it IS the same mistake. It's just a different thing because Path of Exile offers a LOT more depth of options than Diablo 2 ever did.

We all have to admit GGG has lost their sense as a gamer given the recent spiky change reflects how GGG does their balancing based on trading, barring players from easily entering fun end game content and etc.

GGG is looking from the perspective of statistic of top tier players and make changes based on that. They never enroll as a gamer from beginning to the end in this game but being a staff and developers only. Hence, that explains how they have no clue how to make PoE a fun game anymore lately.
They assume their changes in recent big and small patches alike are awesome and compatible to serve the population of the gamers based on statistic, not based on how they play the game.

Sooner or later, GGG will lose all its former glory by turning into one of those mega million companies that balance the game without giving fun value to gamers.
It does look like that now given they introduced more damage spike which is wellknown as one shot mechanic into the game, end game contents barred behind RNG, and braindumb mechanic, immunities.

Seriously? Is this the same game that encourage build diversities? As of now, more and more unique builds will simply answer to such new mechanic by using a Chaos. Yes, screw build diversity and unique builds as the answer to all of that is a Chaos Orb.

GGG, are you now lacking of ideas and mechanic designs? Can you please stop insulting all of us who appreciates and values the uniqueness of this game being so different and special from other game with big names?


Love,
Bunny

If you have nothing to add to the discussion rather then non-constructive defamatory post's about GGG as a company, don't bother posting in the future?

The topic seems obvious as suggested by the tittle.

It's amazing some people actually wonder why GGG doesn't pro-actively responds to feedback threads given post's like these.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

EAKZOI wrote:

@Boem:

Leech Immunity. And are YOU disagreeing ?!

GGG made something REALLY wrong this time. I have to agree with you op =).

I have disagreed plenty with decision made by GGG, maybe you simply have not been around long enough to know this.

There is however a difference between disagreeing from a personal motivation or biased point of view and trying to comprehend a decision made by GGG from an objective stand-point.

From an objective stance, the opinion voiced that this is just another chaos sink is most likely correct. However that doesn't impede my original point that immunity's are simply lackluster design.

Simply put, end-game content should aim to kill players, but it should allow ways to overcome adversity
as-well.

An immunity does not allow this "space" to a player. It's an all or nothing game.



Peace,

-Boem-