Immunity's are a fundamental bad design considering recent changes.

"

yungwhiz wrote:

It is a currency sink veiled with the word "challenge". A person playing a permafreeze build isn't going to make a new character, they aren't going to modify their build to accommodate, they are going to use a chaos orb. Or if it is a high level map they will sell it to someone who doesn't care about ailments. That is GGG's goal. Economy is love, economy is life.

"

Char1983 wrote:

As for the "elemental status ailment" thing - if you are a perma-freeze build, that sucks. Now imagine it was "% shorter duration of elemental status ailments" instead. You can either reduce that so much that the perma-freeze build doesnt care because he can still perma-freeze monsters, or you can have enough % reduction such that the freeze duration drops below 300ms and it is essentially the same as immunity (because under 300 ms it is not applied any more). And if you cannot freeze, you can still kill monsters. Try dropping a decoy totem for help.

You are assuming there is no middle ground. A state where monsters still freeze, but for less time, adding danger that your build wouldn't have faced if not for the mod.

For set pieces like the Atziri boss fight, where GGG has full control over the arena, instead of immunity to counter mechanics that might trivialize her, why not add new defensive mechanics to her that players who use things like freeze have to deal with instead of nullifying them altogether?

For instance, imagine if she had minions who shoot cleansing flames at her to defrost her, so to keep her frozen you'd have to hunt down these de-frosting minions.

Or, if GGG needs a long-term solution they can apply anywhere, just increase her resistance to a status effect the more she's exposed to it, and drop it back down when she's not. She couldn't be perma-frozen, then, but you'd still get value out of freezing her intermittently.

There are just so many different ways you can get a similar result without immunity, ways that don't invalidate builds at a core level.

"

Hercanic wrote:

"

Char1983 wrote:

As for the "elemental status ailment" thing - if you are a perma-freeze build, that sucks. Now imagine it was "% shorter duration of elemental status ailments" instead. You can either reduce that so much that the perma-freeze build doesnt care because he can still perma-freeze monsters, or you can have enough % reduction such that the freeze duration drops below 300ms and it is essentially the same as immunity (because under 300 ms it is not applied any more). And if you cannot freeze, you can still kill monsters. Try dropping a decoy totem for help.

You are assuming there is no middle ground. A state where monsters still freeze, but for less time, adding danger that your build wouldn't have faced if not for the mod.

For set pieces like the Atziri boss fight, where GGG has full control over the arena, instead of immunity to counter mechanics that might trivialize her, why not add new defensive mechanics to her that players who use things like freeze have to deal with instead of nullifying them altogether?

For instance, imagine if she had minions who shoot cleansing flames at her to defrost her, so to keep her frozen you'd have to hunt down these de-frosting minions.

Or, if GGG needs a long-term solution they can apply anywhere, just increase her resistance to a status effect the more she's exposed to it, and drop it back down when she's not. She couldn't be perma-frozen, then, but you'd still get value out of freezing her intermittently.

There are just so many different ways you can get a similar result without immunity, ways that don't invalidate builds at a core level.

Not trying to be a flatterer here but, have you ever though on becoming a Dev ? lol

I can't see why people can't realize that is so many creative ways on dealing with stuff like "Challenge vs SuperOP".

They always think like "Add it to completely ruin balance, or don't add it at all."

I remember playing Diablo 2 at Hell,

All mobs had one immune (fire, ligthning, cold poison etc...) Ghost were all immune to physical and rare mobs could have 2-3 immunity :)

Hi

D2 immunities sucked. Having beserk be like the only skill to mess with ghosts was such a bad design choice.

GGG you guys really messed up the bed with these leech changes I don't even touch leech anymore because of it.

GGG please no immunities! Why not have maps with resistances to stun/ailments and maps with lower duration time or higher cost of curses and stuff, THERE ARE ALWAYS ALTERNATIVES.

cheers

"

Hercanic wrote:

"

SjakaWaka wrote:

Am not a fan of immunity myself.
But lets be fair. a map modifier that weakens your character is not a bad thing.

Most map mods weaken your character. That is not the issue at all. Immunity doesn't weaken, it completely invalidates.

What many fans are asking for is that instead of immunity, we get something similar that weakens instead, like [Reduced X Effectiveness] for curses, stuns, leech, etc.

immunity does not immediately invalidate entire builds tough.
entirely depends on what the immunity is about.

the only reason i personally don't like the leech mod is because the lack of options for a melee CI, as they unlike life based chars don't have potions/life on hit to fall back to.

if there were ES potions i would not have any problems with it.

as there would still be an easy way to sustain accessible to everyone

as for the immunity to elemental status.
am not sure about this.
I think in most cases with a few support swaps burn builds will be ok as burn build can still just opt for the strait up damage to kill things.
shock builds don't exist, shock is just a buff to a build never core.
freeze builds well i don't have enough experience to know how hard the hit will be not being able to freeze. its a defense loss true , but should it destroy well rounded chars that use freeze ? i don't think so. but i can't be sure of this.

as long you can work around immunity with pretty much any build with just a support swap or potion swap, or something along those lines it ok i think.

FYI blood magic is allot worse as mod design go. CI can't even use a skill anymore

Are there not new ES on hit modifiers, for example on jewels? Might be too lousy though (values too low).

As for the more creative mods on maps, I agree. There could be more creative mods. There should be. I think that is a different kind of discussion, though.

As for the "reduce freeze duration" instead of "immune to freeze" - you would have to dig pretty deep into the game mechanics I guess for that to work. At least the build I am thinking about doing would rely on crit-freeze, and I think cold snap also does an on-hit freeze, right? So if you do that, the question is freeze duration vs. cast time. A lot of builds have cast times in the 0.3-0.5s regime. So if the freeze time doesn't drop below 0.3s, it does not matter. If the freeze time does drop below 0.3s, the monsters become freeze immune because freeze is not applied if it lasts less than 300ms.

Now of course there would be ways to work around this, like "cannot be frozen, but chilled". But that works for freeze, not for burning or shocked...

I think immunity against debuff are ok.

Like immune to curses, cannot be stunned, shocked, ignited etc. so I'm ok with immune to leech.

As long as you can kill the monster for me it's an ok mod

"

Boem wrote:

"

Bars wrote:

offtopic

If you wonder why I rarely reply to you, a bit of offtopic to clarify: your spelling and your obsessive insistence to sign with your name annoy me to no end. Also, writing walls of text all the time doesn't help. You know I'm no stranger to a good wall of text every now and then, but there are limits for everything.

So:

Apostrophe + s means possession. An "s" at the end of the word without an apostrophe means plural.

Therefore, it's "immunities", not "immunity's". It's also "you're" (a contraction of "you are"), not "your". "Your" also denotes possession. If you're wondering where you wrote "your" instead of "you're", it was in your post in the "break the game or game breaks you" thread.

These are not great intricacies of the English language, it's basic stuff learned in the first month of studies. Or first week.

ot-response i suppose?

That's all fine and dandy. But i learned english on my own from watching series and "experimenting" with the language myself.

Flaws are bound to happen. If i get my message across, that's all that matters to me.

Now you are free to disagree with that and dismiss a post based on it's grammatical errors, i would lie if i told you i have no personal issue with such an attitude. But it's just that, a personal opinion on such attitudes.

I hope you are familiar with the concept that not everybody posting on these boards

1) had an education
2) properly understands english and its intricacies

But are simply doing there best to get a point across to another party within the means they have available to themselves.

Feel free to continue dismissing posts on the flawed notion that everybody on these boards should be able to write post's in fluent english.

I hope that ends the derailment though.

Peace,

-Boem-

Your English is fabulous, Boem, considering it's self-taught. You should be proud of that, and ignore nay-sayers (while still seeking to improve).

/endderailment

Agree with OP. Immunity in PoE is a bad design, and all it really accomplishes is further limiting the hot builds that can tackle almost any content in 2.0 high tier maps (double flame totem ftw).

Most players won't bother temporarily altering their character to do one map or switching to an alternate build, they'll just chalk the mod up to the already long list of mods they can't do and reroll until one of them doesn't show up. Basically, the more difficult mods GGG adds the more currency people will be sinking into maps to avoid them - further widening the wealth gap between players who can tackle running rare maps and players who can't.

Challenge is important and central to PoE. But adding content that we all just want to avoid playing is incredibly stupid. I'm looking at you, ever-expanding number of overtuned map bosses.