You break the game, or the game breaks you
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Op imo, it has (almost) nothing to do about game being broken but more about stash tab sales ... :S
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Grepman_wrote:
" I play DotA since 2004. At some point I competed in tournaments and even managed to win a few on the national and small international level back when the game was young and Light of Heaven and Vigoss were the best. I've actually played with them and all the other Russian pros, as well as MyM|H4nni, MyM|Levent, with Kuroky when he was still in an obscure German clan and played pubs in EU HLR 1 in Garena (then GG Client). It was a sweet time when hyperaggression ruled and no one had ever heard of Asian dota or Chinese farming. I've also played Brood War, various shooters and (briefly) SC2. H3 too, although pvp there takes too long and quickly bored me. Having sufficiently stroked my ego and verified my enormous e-peen, I cut to the point: I get competitive gaming and pvp games. PoE is not a competitive or PvP game. It can certainly be played that way but this is not its core and it's no coincidence that most people don't. PoE is a PvE game at heart and trying to treat it as a competitive one is an enormous mistake. The bad part is, you are right - GGG seem to be trying to market it as a competitive, "hardcore" game. I don't know if it's only marketing or they are honestly confused. @Tiandal: how exactly is making your game less interesting is going to help stash tab sales? I don't follow. The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again. Last edited by Bars on Aug 3, 2015, 4:58:20 PM
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" cool. I played dota maybe once. Im a huge noob. but watching some games, and reading about it, its clear that its one of the, if not the most competitive game in the world, at least right now. so color me impressed by your epeen :D " well whether or not its a mistake is another question. GGG always positioned PoE as niche, 'hardcore', party-oriented, economy-oriented competitive game. this is where the balancing stems from. if it was just a single player arpg with no questions asked like titan quest, no one would care enough for constant balance beyond beta | |
" That's the thing: if most people are happy with the game, they won't give a fuck about some other guy's "broken" build. Azdrubel wrote about it - people constantly complaining about skills, items and builds which they perceive as imbalanced. Here's another thing: most people don't really know what they want - they only think they do. And, as I said above, most people are profoundly unhappy. To quote another guy from somewhere else, democracy's main problem is that idiots are always a majority. So, in terms of all that whining "balance that, balance this", even if a majority of people are saying it, it doesn't say much. People are stupid, selfish, delusional and so forth. The only thing this high amount of forum whining is telling us for certain is that a lot of people are unhappy with the game. Again: make the game more rewarding and they will be too busy playing to come here and cry about stuff. The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again. Last edited by Bars on Aug 3, 2015, 5:13:25 PM
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" I completely disagree. people will complain no matter what. if something makes the 'casual' camp happy, it will make the 'hardcore' camp unhappy people always give a fuck about the next man's build. its 2015, not 1995 when having a 56k modem was a luxury. let's say theyre struggling to beat dominus, then they go on random poe stream and see a random guy mollywhop him in 5 seconds. of course theyre jelly. of course they must think 'man my build must suck ass'. people compare penises and builds all the time man. go to grim dawn forum, there are still complaints about certain skills being op and so forth. and its a single player game where you can dupe items legally. I personally will be very unhappy with the game if it introduces BoA items, less spiky damage and less grind and more causal approach. and I actually have reasons to be unhappy with such game given that the games promise was to cater to grinders and niche audience, not the other way around. " I mean Im not an expert in human psychology, but I can see that " people playing the game, people on this forum or just people in general ? out of game population we're lucky if one percent consistently post on forums " well thats a good point. I actually think GGG gave in to bullying too much at some point. The thing that made it great- responsive on forums - proved too much and they caved in to peoples cries "nope, it wont work. then people who were busy playing to come here right now will come back and cry about stuff. people only post when they feel strong about stuff one way or the other | |
" Good point, I stand corrected. " People in general. With this, I bid you a good night. The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again.
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I think that this idea has been floated before but one way to satisfy everyone would be a character based difficulty slider. Once it is set it can't be changed and for the competitive people, the ladder won't register until the difficulty is maxed. This way casuals and no lifers can have the level of challenge that they want and people can't gain high rankings by playing easier. Maybe make the slidea attached to monster damage and life and loot drop rates.
I'll take "Swords" for two hundred Alex.
-Faux Sean Connery |
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" i played D3 and the only thing this every achieved in doing is that you never feel satisfied if you overcome a challange because you never do. its the reason i quit D3 tbh | |
" Seems like this should be what the OP was about, then. The game is a competitive one, and builds can be judged objectively. It may be a mistake or a confusion, but it's what GGG desires and it's the road they're going to continue to go down. --- I, for one, don't want to play the game like a single player romp where I end up becoming a deity in the final act. There are great single players games to scratch that itch. I enjoy the struggle and having to find the shallow route to victory while at the same time trying to flex whatever creativity I can within that framework. Grinding my face off and/or farming ignorable mobs until my eyeballs pop out isn't desirable gameplay to me. That's a solved problem and a bot can do it. I want the unsolved problems of trying to select elements from a bag that total a certain weight, or trying to design a build that is best at some aspect of the game instead of a generalist. --- Anyway, great thread and well-written OP. I disagree with you, but I love it when we can all sit down and talk civilly about the game. :) | |
" How? Saying a ball is square doesn't make it square. A game like this will never be competitive. This is PvE at its core. "Builds being judged objectively" is not a great argument to support PoE being competitive. And even if you said something along the lines of PvP and leaderboard, still no, since majority of the interaction in this game is PvE. |
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