Converted damage of conversions converts even more damage when it is converted from convers...

Wow thank you for the breakdown.

So the gist I'm getting is that

"Phys Converted to X Element" isn't necessarily an increase to your damage unless you've got a lot of stats that increase X Element damage, and that's especially good with fire because of ignite double dipping. That makes perfect sense to me.

And an example of a bad choice here would be Hrimsorrow gloves which convert 25% of physical damage to cold damage, so if you don't have a lot of %cold damage modifiers you'll probably break even or lose damage in the long run (especially if you run something like hatred which scales with phys).


X Element added based on Phys is just a damage bump (EX: Hatred, Herald of Ash) and if you have a lot of phys damage already these are excellent choices if you can afford to run them.


I do have one awkward question if you wouldn't mind answering one more:

Say I'm running Hatred which adds cold damage as a percentage of my physical, and I were to link it with the gem "Cold to Fire" - would that convert 50% of the hatred cold damage to fire, and then add another % as fire damage as the gem describes? Or does that not work with aura type gems? And if that doesn't work, could I possibly link that gem to my main skill instead and have it function with the hatred aura?

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Nasreth wrote:

Wow thank you for the breakdown.

So the gist I'm getting is that

"Phys Converted to X Element" isn't necessarily an increase to your damage

Yes. Justto be sure: It is also not a lose, since your "increased physical"modifiers are still applied to the converted elemental damage. Every Damage is "tagged by its type", conversions just add a new tag.

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Nasreth wrote:

unless you've got a lot of stats that increase X Element damage and that's especially good with fire because of ignite double dipping. That makes perfect sense to me.

Yes. To be sure again: If you only convert 50% of physical damage to fire, "increased physical" will still increase 100% of your hit damage, while fire damage will only increase "50% of the hitdamage" but additionally will doubledip on the potential ignite. So it's wise to either stay at full physical without spending points on ignite or to fully commit to fire damage. When your entire damage is converted to fire the hitdamage is fully increased by physical damage as well as firedamage making big ignite basicdamage that is increased by fire again. This is also true to "increased elemental damage"

"

Nasreth wrote:

And an example of a bad choice here would be Hrimsorrow gloves which convert 25% of physical damage to cold damage, so if you don't have a lot of %cold damage modifiers you'll probably break even or lose damage in the long run

Im not sure about your wording. Since "increased physical" still increases the physical and converted cold hitdamage. "Increased Colddamage" only increases the colddamage. So with only 25% converted to cold, "increased colddamage" is much weaker than "increased physical. If the entire physical damage is converted to cold, "increased colddamage" will be as strong as "increased physical", maybe even stronger cause it is also applied to statuseffects.

"

Nasreth wrote:

X Element added based on Phys is just a damage bump (EX: Hatred, Herald of Ash) and if you have a lot of phys damage already these are excellent choices if you can afford to run them.

Yes

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Nasreth wrote:

I do have one awkward question if you wouldn't mind answering one more:

Say I'm running Hatred which adds cold damage as a percentage of my physical, and I were to link it with the gem "Cold to Fire" - would that convert 50% of the hatred cold damage to fire, and then add another % as fire damage as the gem describes? Or does that not work with aura type gems? And if that doesn't work, could I possibly link that gem to my main skill instead and have it function with the hatred aura?

Actually I would adive you to look at the "keywords" of "Cold to Fire". If it had contained only "attack", it would have worked only while using an attack. The keywords are "Cold, Fire, Support", still i think it wont work with an aura directly. Instead you could as you suggested link it to your skill. Your skill applies the damage of hatred, all applied damage will be addressed by conversion. So my answer is yes, the damage applied by hatred will be subject to conversion.

Im testing a lot of about infernal blow myself. Maybe ill add the setup in which IB damage is maxed, if i found it.

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Philkingz wrote:

Yes. Justto be sure: It is also not a lose, since your "increased physical"modifiers are still applied to the converted elemental damage. Every Damage is "tagged by its type", conversions just add a new tag.

Yes. To be sure again: If you only convert 50% of physical damage to fire, "increased physical" will still increase 100% of your hit damage, while fire damage will only increase "50% of the hitdamage" but additionally will doubledip on the potential ignite. So it's wise to either stay at full physical without spending points on ignite or to fully commit to fire damage. When your entire damage is converted to fire the hitdamage is fully increased by physical damage as well as firedamage making big ignite basicdamage that is increased by fire again. This is also true to "increased elemental damage"

So what I was getting at here is with an aura such as Hatred/Herald of Ash, which gives you bonus damage based on physical - wouldn't gloves like Hrimsorrow reduce your total physical damage by 25% and therefore reduce the bonus damage you get from Hatred/Herald of Ash

Or is the bonus damage from hatred/herald of ash applied before the physical damage is converted to cold?

"

Nasreth wrote:

"

Philkingz wrote:

Yes. Justto be sure: It is also not a lose, since your "increased physical"modifiers are still applied to the converted elemental damage. Every Damage is "tagged by its type", conversions just add a new tag.

Yes. To be sure again: If you only convert 50% of physical damage to fire, "increased physical" will still increase 100% of your hit damage, while fire damage will only increase "50% of the hitdamage" but additionally will doubledip on the potential ignite. So it's wise to either stay at full physical without spending points on ignite or to fully commit to fire damage. When your entire damage is converted to fire the hitdamage is fully increased by physical damage as well as firedamage making big ignite basicdamage that is increased by fire again. This is also true to "increased elemental damage"

So what I was getting at here is with an aura such as Hatred/Herald of Ash, which gives you bonus damage based on physical - wouldn't gloves like Hrimsorrow reduce your total physical damage by 25% and therefore reduce the bonus damage you get from Hatred/Herald of Ash

No you wont lose damage, since "added %physical as X" is applied before conversion.

Little Example:
100 Physical damage
15% added as fire(Ash), 35% added as cold (Hatred)
25% physical converted to cold

gives you

35 Cold (hatred)
15 Fire (ash)
75 physical (rest phys)
25 cold (converted cold)

Awesome!

I was always worried that I might gimp my damage by converting damage types but it looks like these gems are immune to my stupidity =P

Thank you for your help.

Ok, so I decided to put to a real test all of this .

Base damage 44 to 116 = 160 physical

Hatre : 34% Phys added as Cold
HoA : 15% Phys added as Fire
PTL : 10% Phys added as Light
CTF : 20% Cold added as Fire


AoF : 50% Cold converted to Fire
AoF : 50% Phys converted to Fire
AoF : 50% Light converted to Fire
PTL : 50% Phys converted to Light
CTF : 50% Cold converted to Fire


First the Phys ones :

34% Phys added as Cold -> + 54.4 = 54 Cold
15% Phys added as Fire -> 24 Fire
10% Phys added as Light -> 16 Light

50% Phys converted to Fire -> 80 Fire
50% Phys converted to Light -> 80 Light

Total : 254
54 Cold
96 Light
104 Fire

Second the Lightning ones :

AoF : 50% Light converted to Fire -> 48 Fire + 48 Light

Total = 254
54 Cold
48 Light
152 Fire

Third the Cold ones :

CTF : 20% Cold added as Fire -> 10.8 -> 10 Fire

AoF : 50% Cold converted to Fire ->
CTF : 50% Cold converted to Fire -> 54 fire

Total
48 Light
216 Fire

Deal no non fire damage : 216 Fire

With 1.5 burning arrow multiplier : 324 Fire

Guess what : this is exactly what I get on my test character, here are the pictures. I know I did mistakes, but I admitted them and I corrected what I did wrong. All my calculations are accurate, and those two pictures proove it.

ok, Zibelin,
i did not realize that you even answered the question about "added damage". But now i got it, nice one!

I actually make advanced DPS calculators in my spare time, and they're generally accurate to the nearest .2%. They account for damage conversions, auras, gem level/quality, damage effectiveness, crit, and even things like mana regen, aura nodes, and reduced mana. Sadly, I cannot share them :P. But I'll take a stab at this one, whether or not you've already got an answer.

Ok, so I'm imagining the following scenario:


The order of conversions is ALWAYS physical > lightning > cold > fire > chaos. It used to be that the order of lightning and cold conversions didn’t matter, but the Call of the Brotherhood unique permanently cemented the order. When calculating each item further down the list, you should always look at the base of each source of damage.

Since infernal blow’s base 50% phys to fire conversion takes priority, AoF causes an additional 25% phys to go to fire, and Phys to Lightning causes the remaining 25% to go to lightning. So for starters, 75% phys is going to fire, 25% phys is going to lightning.

Lightning:
100 phys -> +30 lightning (Physical to Lightning’s bonus)
100 phys -> -25 phys, +25 lightning (Physical to Lightning’s conversion)
Total lightning from phys: 55 lightning

Cold:
100 phys -> +35 cold (hatred)
Total cold from phys: 35 cold

Fire:
100 phys -> -75 phys, +75 fire (Avatar of Fire, Infernal Blow)
100 phys -> +15 fire (HoA)
Total fire from phys: 90

55 lightning -> -55 lightning, 27.5 fire (AoF)
Total fire from lightning: 27.5

35 cold -> -35 cold, +35 fire (AoF, Cold to Fire’s conversion)
35 cold -> +10.5 fire (Cold to Fire’s bonus)
Total fire from cold: 45.5

Total sum:
Phys: 0
Cold: 0
Lightning: 0
Fire: 163
27.5 lightning damage lost because of Avatar of Fire


Bonus: if you didn't have AoF


Bonus: If you really didn’t have all these damage conversions and just Hatred + HoA:

Look like devs don't know the answer themselves, otherwise they'd have said something already :)

The information on the game wiki is enough to figure out things, it just requires some time to understand it.