Evasion melee vs act 4 mobs in maps

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Timewar9 wrote:

GGG, how did you envision this playing out? Is there some trick to surviving that doesn't involve armor?

I am a level 75 melee with 46% evasion, 40% dodge, 30% spell dodge and 22-24% block (depending on tempest shield).

If you read-up on mechanics, you'd know you are gimping yourself by focussing on this many stats.
46% evasion, 40% dodge, 24% block -> 0,54 * 0,6 * 0,76 = 24,6% chance to get hit.

Imagine removing dodge (40%) means you gain 30% block due to acrobatics penalty:
46% evasion, 54% block -> 0,54 * 0,46 = 24,8% chance to get hit.


Avoidance mechanics are much stronger if you stack 1 or 2 stats, rather than spreading them out.
So take those 5-6 points from acrobatics (and perhaps even more due to pathing) and throw them into more block or (probably easier) evasion instead.


edit: just went over your characters, but none of them has the stats you mentioned! You do know that acrobatics lowers block by 30% correct? As based on your build, he has a shield which with thempest indeed is <30% block, but after applying acrobatics you are left with 0% block!

So your real stats are:
46% evasion, 40% dodge -> 0,54 * 0,6 = 32,4% chance to get hit. That makes you a pincusion, not something that can take hits.

I'm trying to build and play a very high end geared melee evasion ele crit reave and I can confirm that it's hardly playable.

The amount of the damage that the mobs are doing in end game content 78+ maps with high damage enhancing mods is absurd and it is impossible to avoid one shots. There are so many circumstances where the amount of damage you are taking is impossible to mitigate, like nemesis mods etc.

They have nerfed evasion again. I also play a lvl 97 shadow ranger with split or LA and trying out melee has been a total joke even though I am using top tier gear. Broken mechanic.

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Xanarot wrote:

edit: just went over your characters, but none of them has the stats you mentioned! You do know that acrobatics lowers block by 30% correct? As based on your build, he has a shield which with thempest indeed is <30% block, but after applying acrobatics you are left with 0% block!

Dodge apply's a "less" modifier on block, not a "reduced" modifier.

Peace,

-Boem-

my melee evasion (3.8k hp, leech-heavy shadow) experience is:

- chaos damage on mobs got a huge boost and HURTS a lot, pack of snakes with extra damage might lead to certain death. chaos resist is important, more than in 1.3
- flasks. granite + iron skin, jade + eva bonus are a must. consider replacing quicksilver with life flask and stick to whirling blades/jumping/whatever instead
- caution. 1.3 habbit of running headlong straight into 20+ mobs + auras etc killed me many times.
- flasks again. Instant flasks only. Burst damage is so obscene that there is no real benefit of healing 3000hp when one is already dead.

And finaly. There is no such thing as pure evasion build in 2.0. You will get hit and it is better to have at least SOME armor on you. Auto immortal call made PURE evasion playable. Without it one is risking a lot playing without armor.

I find it refreshingly fun to play this kind of chars but i would not call them hc viable without a lot manual skill (positioning, movement skills, knowing when to run etc).

On the upside: lockstep!! This is what makes no cwdt ec ic passable. No more 'that was not my fault' deaths out of nowhere. I still die but each time so far i knew the cause.

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Xanarot wrote:

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Timewar9 wrote:

GGG, how did you envision this playing out? Is there some trick to surviving that doesn't involve armor?

I am a level 75 melee with 46% evasion, 40% dodge, 30% spell dodge and 22-24% block (depending on tempest shield).

If you read-up on mechanics, you'd know you are gimping yourself by focussing on this many stats.
46% evasion, 40% dodge, 24% block -> 0,54 * 0,6 * 0,76 = 24,6% chance to get hit.

Imagine removing dodge (40%) means you gain 30% block due to acrobatics penalty:
46% evasion, 54% block -> 0,54 * 0,46 = 24,8% chance to get hit.


Avoidance mechanics are much stronger if you stack 1 or 2 stats, rather than spreading them out.
So take those 5-6 points from acrobatics (and perhaps even more due to pathing) and throw them into more block or (probably easier) evasion instead.


edit: just went over your characters, but none of them has the stats you mentioned! You do know that acrobatics lowers block by 30% correct? As based on your build, he has a shield which with thempest indeed is <30% block, but after applying acrobatics you are left with 0% block!

So your real stats are:
46% evasion, 40% dodge -> 0,54 * 0,6 = 32,4% chance to get hit. That makes you a pincusion, not something that can take hits.

Boem already mentioned this, but you're misunderstanding Acro's penalty to block. It doesn't subtract a flat block chance of 30%, it multiplies your block chance by 0.7. So 25% block without Acro would become 17.5% with Acro. Not 0. (Or -5%! :P)

But you do have a point regarding diminishing returns... I haven't taken a look at his toons but if he has any block nodes those can probably be respecced and used for life instead.

I whas playing a shadow and i go to ranger and duelist.
In my way i have acces to many shield defence node, i take them and take good armor shield.
I get to Soul of steel and fortify node and im good.

My frend ask me whay dont you go evasion on your melee?
I just say to him, F evasion.

Reason is, beter stay berly alive then get one shot, that is suprasing difrance in my book.

I won't comment on whether or not evasion in general is too weak right now, but I will point out that a dual wield evasion acro character now can reach 74% dodge chance due to the introduction of the Tiger Hook sword and Conqueror's Longevity plus the changes to Hyrri's Ire.

DODGE
40% passive
16% 8 frenzy charges with Darkray Vector
6% Dual wield Tiger Hooks
10% Hyrri's Ire
2% Conqueror's Longevity

74% total.

Combining this with a high level of evasion, making sure you also have a sizable health pool, is pretty much the most tanky character (against attacks) I can imagine. You'll end up evading/dodging/blocking around 90-92% of all attacks, depending of course on evasion numbers and increases to dual wield block.

Sizable health pool and Hyrri's Ire is quite a stretch bro. Plus dual wield, instead of shield with life?

I admit 74% dodge is quite attractive, but dual wield AND Hyrri's will give you a very low life pool.

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Ceryneian wrote:

First - you are wasting your time here on Feedback forum as GGG does not read or respond here.

This is the ghost town section of the forums.

That's utter bullcrap. Feedback is meant for direct feedback to the developers, unlike discussion... I guess YOU are in the wrong forum.
Of course this huge number of player feedback won't easily be read let alone answered. If they search feedback on a topic they just search for "evasion" for instance.

@TO slightly offtopic: but you don't want to mix block with Dodge (unless you have that unique jewel)

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Ceryneian wrote:

Sizable health pool and Hyrri's Ire is quite a stretch bro. Plus dual wield, instead of shield with life?

I admit 74% dodge is quite attractive, but dual wield AND Hyrri's will give you a very low life pool.

I reckon that I was a bit too excited about getting as much dodge as possible. And I thought dual wielding Tiger Hooks would be awesome! I concur that a shield and a single Tiger Hook would be much stronger. Giving up 3% dodge for a shield's block chance ends up giving you about the same chance to dodge/evade/block anyway, but with the added stats of the shield.