Single target needs some love
" My great pleasure, sir! One thing I forgot to mention, from a 4L skill point of view: Much of the time, I will spec out of 2 hand in into 1 hand dual wield as I enter Merciless. Reason being is that the DPS of 2 X mediocre 1 handers is nearly the same as the DPS of a mediocre 2H weapon. The tiny loss of DPS is made up for with the safety that the built in block and life replacement the extra attack speed can provide. Also, if one uses a foil along with a dagger, for instance, there's some bonus crit chance & multi for free. I've often found that 2X guaranteed 3 linked sockets can offer more utility than 1X 4 link. There's a lot of things to consider. Love 2H & this thread. Where's Boem? :) |
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" Aye! That leech/LOH support is a great thing to slot in against those degen bosses like dom the 2nd and HS the heck out of him! :) |
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Scrotie has brought this up in the past and I've been the first to laugh.
Sure there were some builds for which a single target was pointless, but there were many more builds that a 4 link single target was like 3 to 5 times more damage than the 6 link AoE against a single target. I laughed because it wasn't an issue, I laughed because Scrotie insisted it was. I'm not laughing any more. The way buffs and nerfs affected skills in 2.0.0, added to how recently added skills work, I think it really is an issue, now. Take a wander, for example. Pre 1.3.0 you might have Power Siphon, GMP, Chain, WED, and 2 of Crit Damage, Faster Attacks, Leech, in a 6 link. This was easily outdone in single target damage by a 4 link, even a 3 link. In 1.3.0 we got Kinetic Blast. Because of the way the skill works you can drop chain and be left with the other 5 supports or introduce pierce as a choice. The single target damage of the 6 link AoE became much more, even without the use of frost wall. But a 4 link, or even a 3 link single target still dealt enough damage to be useful. You could have a 50k 6 link AoE Kinetic Blast and a 150k 4 link Power Siphon, the 6 link would be shit dps against a single target while the 4 link would make short work. But then getting the target against a wall or in a corner and the 6 link AoE would actually do more single target than the 4 link. This was good, still, while the 6 link could do both jobs, it was situational and either needed use of terrain, adds or frost wall. The 4 link single target still had a place. In 2.0.0, that 50k v 150k is closer to 100k v 120k. Given that these are tooltips and there is always at least some extra damage in the AoE, the single target 4 link is just completely unnecessary. That 100k 6 link is going to do more single target than the 120k 4 link without being situational and have leech to boot. Throw in the situations and it's miles ahead. I remade my ele KB wander in 2.0.0. My 4 link single target? Now changed to a 4 link support, Frenzy, GMP, PCoC to make the 6 link AoE do even more single target, the 4th link is a leech gem to allow the blind throwing of the support GMP every so often without concern. Casually casual. Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Jul 13, 2015, 7:43:36 PM
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"power creep is real the new skills basically either have built-in aoe or no one uses them. for a skill without an inherent aoe to be used, it has to provide overwhelmingly good benefit -ie amazing mechanic or just insane damage. but since clear speed is how fast you clear shit in an area, clearly a *decent* damage advantage of single target is just not enough. its aoe or gtfoh now for vast majority of skills. GGG tried to do some damage control with nerf to conc and aoe radius on gems, but damage's been done. aoe skills dominate poe and have been doing so since a while. charan had a huge thread on that phenomenon I believe |
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"Eh. Pre-2.0 it was a 30% less penalty on LMP when I felt 35% less would have been more appropriate. And I do still believe 35% would be more appropriate. It was nitpicking, but in my not-humble opinion fully justified, absolutely correct nitpicking. Like going through a chapter of a book and finding one instance of "where" where it should be "were." Ultimately, though, not hugely important to the game one way or the other. Nitpickery. But in 2.0 numbers went in the other direction. It isn't nitpicky anymore. When Scrotie and Anuhart actually agree on something, well, that's saying something. ;) When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 13, 2015, 8:17:26 PM
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Gems in 6L I think is what you're getting at; it's technically reave and dualstrike both 5L "Dude he fucking said hotdog racist. Like I can't even make this shit up." - gj 1.0.0 Forum Posters now have 50% less Critical Thinking skill per Patch Last edited by dickhole_mcghee#3909 on Jul 13, 2015, 9:48:39 PM
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@dickhole (lulz)
Although that is one way to do it, it comes at a large cost to multitarget which isn't a good fit for everyone. For example, it requires no Increased AoE or Conc Effect supports on Reave. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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I'm doing an Ice Crash, Glacial Hammer templar. I'll probably use an ice golem too, to go crit (and as a pseudo decoy totem). Who knows if it'll work at the end, but it's satisfying. I don't know if the single target skill will be more for utility or damage, it will probably depend on the progress I make on Warbands..
I dislike one skill builds in general, so I try to put one single target and/or vaal skill somewhere. One way to solve the single target thing would be to let 4L (and maybe 3L) rares to spawn support skills as affixes, so you get something like a 5L. Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 |
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"Assuming there was some kind of "limit one" tracking (that is, max 1 support-granting affix per 4L item), that would be an alternative to my math-based solution above. However, this would hugely devalue 5L chests and give items more of a "6L or bust" feel... I think my solution has more control over side effects. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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You sacrifice an affix, also, it can be made as rare as needed, or the support can be relatively low level. Anyway, it was just a random idea, :)
Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 |
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