Physical damage bonus on weapons too important

When one mod is mandatory, it's as if your rare item has only 5 mods. The randomness and variety become fake because of this mod.

ED doesn't necessary need to be nerf, it's all other mods that need a big buff, for them to be as interesting as ED.

As Chris stated in the 0.9.4 teaser:

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Chris wrote:

- Massive boosts to the relative damage of weapons (especially melee combat)

Weapons are being rebalanced to scale better against enemy health, so you don't need massive +damage% mods to have effective weapons.

My dual-wielding mace marauder on alpha is using magic maces with less than +100% damage, and is doing fine so far in Act 1 Merciless. He's been using the same maces since Act 1 Ruthless. Of course, it's still not witch-speed killing, but it's decent and fun.

damage boost are ok but i like mods that are useful more.

like on my archer i like to get the mods that slow or freeze my target when i shoot them, gives me health back for each shot, and boost the ranks of my spell orbs on the weapon. that extra 15 to 20 damage is just 1 more shot which i can't do if i have something on top of me. the mods help me keep my distance and keep my health without spamming my health pots.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

As Chris stated in the 0.9.4 teaser:

"

Chris wrote:

- Massive boosts to the relative damage of weapons (especially melee combat)

Weapons are being rebalanced to scale better against enemy health, so you don't need massive +damage% mods to have effective weapons.

The solution is not buffing all weapon classes, even though meleers will get the most benefit. The problem is witch-kill speed should take a solid break. F.e one of the most important lackness is that being elemental resistant mobs are just too easy, and does not serve its purpose, which instead should be a lot more trouble to witches than already it is. If one witch killing enemies only with two ice spear, it must take killing other resistant mobs for at least 5 hit. (Speaking for Chaos)

Why i am opposed to buffing "all" weapon types is because of danger, which could easily make the game easier on all counts. But, on the other hand if witches would have nerfed, without any buffing (for them) it would be ok. Anyway, i dont want to make so sharp comments before even it is out, so we shall see.

Base damage being increased will not make %phys any less valuable of a mod. It WILL ease frustration during times when you are unlucky with weapon drops, but no matter what a 150%phys weapon will do two and a half times as much damage. This means that it will be better than weapons you get 10-15 levels further down the road on a higher difficulty setting, unless they too have a %phys modifier.

edit
I would MUCH prefer to have the %phys be based off of %quality or be limited to a small percent (10-15) damage bonus. This would bring the mod in line with other mods and not cause it to be relatively necessary on all weapons.

I would also like to see more interesting mods on weapons (procs, different bonuses, whatever).. these could be as interesting or as bland as necessary for balance.

Saying "Stuff will be better so you won't have to have a %phys weapon" isn't a valid argument because if it is available, your item will be sub-par unless it has a significantly high version of that mod.

There is no other item in the game where you go, "This item is sub-par because it is lacking mod X" except maybe with lower level armor, but there comes a point when diminishing returns kick in and that bonus AC is providing no significant bonus. Unlike the %phys on a weapon, which always provides a massive bonus. a 150%phys weapon means you should kill mobs two and a half times faster.

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Ixath wrote:

Saying "Stuff will be better so you won't have to have a %phys weapon" isn't a valid argument because if it is available, your item will be sub-par unless it has a significantly high version of that mod.

If you can kill everything but magics/rares/bosses in 2 hits in merciless, I don't see how your weapons are lacking. Yes, the mod is extremely valuable and extremely useful, but it won't be necessary for your character to be effective.

What's wrong with it being a very valuable mod? You're not required to have it to succeed. If you want it so badly, you're going to want a scaled-down version of it just as badly.

Ixath rightly points out that %ED will be mandatory as long as no other mods come close to it, regardless of base damage.
I don't buy the argument about rarity. Reducing the impact of this mod will not make good items more common, it will just make the variance between a crap item and a good item smaller. But that might not be desirable either.
An item with +28-49 fire damage is going to be just as rare as a weapon with 129%ED, but one is vastly superior, with the possible exception of very fast weapons with low base damage. It's hard to speculate on that though since those weapons (daggers, claws) just aren't useful at the moment since single-target skills are still painfully weak, and there's no AoE skills for them.

I for one am not a fan of these better-than-the rest mods. It means I never find myself deciding between weapon A with %ED, and weapon B with stun/elemental/IAS/etc., it's always just 'which one has more %ED?'
The only choice is mods vs sockets, but even here %ED wins on a weapon since you can pretty easily make up for bad sockets with your other equipment.
I don't think anyone is intending to push for the top tier of item to be more easily obtained - only that said items could have more variety. Like uber item X with big %ED, uber item Y with big elemental damage, uber item Z with big IAS, etc.
At the moment there is only different variations of item X.

This discussion has come up before in the alpha forum, and while I don't usually quote the devs from alpha, I don't think Chris will mind in this case (quote is edited from multiple posts, I only included the relevant parts):

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Chris wrote:

I personally disagree that it is undesirable to have a "must have" mod for weapons and armour...

...it's intended that there will be a wide utility difference between the best and the worst mods on items...

...it helps a few important things:
a) Making it harder to get a perfect item, because it needs all the good mods rather than merely good rolls on any mods.
b) Increasing the range of impact that items can have on your killing speed and damage mitigation.
c) Creating disparity between magic items.

...it's honestly by design that it's like this.

Not to forget the inc. speed attack bonus, as its not valueless than inc. dmg. At some points it surpasses inc. dmg that makes your character's dps is a lot higher.

Suggest for improve weapon generator algoritm.

1st mod on weapons always can be additional physical damage percentage adds some random elemental expect lightining damage based on weapon physical
damage, like added fire damage red support gem, or spell damage percentage.

2nd mod always can be +flat physical or elemental damage.
3rd critical chance\damage all or spells, increased atack\cast speed or something from second mod.
4th mod can give anything from 2nd and 3rd mod also additional hp, mp, ele resits, accuracy, stun, random dex, int or str stats.
5th and 6th mod same as 4th.

Sure its must be impossible get 2 or more same type mods on 1 weapon.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Ixath wrote:

Saying "Stuff will be better so you won't have to have a %phys weapon" isn't a valid argument because if it is available, your item will be sub-par unless it has a significantly high version of that mod.

If you can kill everything but magics/rares/bosses in 2 hits in merciless, I don't see how your weapons are lacking. Yes, the mod is extremely valuable and extremely useful, but it won't be necessary for your character to be effective.

What's wrong with it being a very valuable mod? You're not required to have it to succeed. If you want it so badly, you're going to want a scaled-down version of it just as badly.

Pretend you're fighting a mob that takes 20 hits to kill with no %phys mod.
-With a 15%phys mod, it will take 17 hits to kill that mob.
-With a 100%phys mod, it takes 10 hits to kill it.
-With a 150% phys mod, it takes 8 hits to kill it.

That's why it wont matter all that much. The difference on a single mob will be negligible with 15%phys vs 0%phys. It will only come into play (slightly) on boss mobs. I would much prefer this system over the current one. I would ultimately prefer having NO modifier at all. This is why I think it should be determined solely by the quality of the weapon.