Legacy items are bullshit

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RogueMage wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The intended result was to make max block not the automatic grab few nodes, get 2 unqiues and have the best defenses in the game... The nerf was justified regardless of your build.

As usual, cite a special case where grossly unbalanced Uniques were exploited to abuse a fundamental game mechanism, and twist that into an excuse for demolishing virtually every build that relied on that mechanism, so that only the abusers are left with viable builds. Top it off by anointing the pay2win Uniques with Legacy status, and consign them to the care of the rmt-fueled vultures who know very well how to make the most of their potential.

Depending on build select 2\3 of the above (either shield if you want one of those) and achieve full spell block. Pick up some nodes on the tree and you've got yourself a max block character for very little investment. Even if the investment you feel was "something" it really wasn't enough for what it provided.

Cite a special case? I don't need to cite anything, go watch someone like mor's max block incinerate character that had max block\spell block\eb\mom (thru chest)\acro\phase and high level AA. I think his build could have also reached ondars but I don't recall him grabbing it. It should not be possible to stack such defensive mechanics to make the game trival.

Block is 100% damage mitigation when it works, which mean having 75\75 is extremely powerful, like I said before it should never have worked with acro\phase and it should have never had worked for such an small amount of cost.

You want it to work now you need to seriously invest into it and probably have to be melee.

Pay to win unqiues? I mean I don't think you understand what that term is used for, to my knowledge GGG isn't selling legacy unqiues somewhere, so its not p2w.

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goetzjam wrote:

Depending on build select 2\3 of the above (either shield if you want one of those) and achieve full spell block. Pick up some nodes on the tree and you've got yourself a max block character for very little investment.

You just demonstrated how vapid and misleading your arguments are. Those Uniques aren't the notorious ones that enabled players to abuse the block mechanism. They don't grant you "full spell block", they only convert a fraction of your acquired block rate to apply to spells as well. For those items to be of any value, the player must still make a long-term commitment to build up his block chance to a significant level, NOT merely "pick up some nodes for very little investment".

Your argument is essentially a rant against the existence of spell block, which aside from a single, high-investment skill tree node, is available only from those specific Uniques. Even if they were as OP as you claim, the fact that you're using them to justify the wholesale decimation of block nodes on the skill tree only goes to demonstrate my point once more.

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RogueMage wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Depending on build select 2\3 of the above (either shield if you want one of those) and achieve full spell block. Pick up some nodes on the tree and you've got yourself a max block character for very little investment.

You just demonstrated how vapid and misleading your arguments are. Those Uniques aren't the notorious ones that enabled players to abuse the block mechanism. They don't grant you "full spell block", they only convert a fraction of your acquired block rate to apply to spells as well. For those items to be of any value, the player must still make a long-term commitment to build up his block chance to a significant level, NOT merely "pick up some nodes for very little investment".

Your argument is essentially a rant against the existence of spell block, which aside from a single, high-investment skill tree node, is available only from those specific Uniques. Even if they were as OP as you claim, the fact that you're using them to justify the wholesale decimation of block nodes on the skill tree only goes to demonstrate my point once more.

If you are talking about bor, we all know that helm was super OP in its first iteration, they brought it down to a reasonable level with the 2nd, but because of its 15% block chance on it it was extremely strong, not to mention a pseudo 7 link.

Enlighten us if you have another unqiue you think was "broken" in terms of block. My main concern back then was spell block as up until 2.0 you have the ability to easily sustain complete physical immunity.

"long-term commitment" yeah ok you are right every point of block was a huge investment when there were 4% block all over the place and at least 1 6% block node. If you have a tree from 1.2 that you think was not "op" please share it with me, because investing into block in 1.2 was super effective and strait up broken especially paired with any of the following:

uniques that convert regular block to spell block
acro\phase
MoM\eb

cwdt\ic\ec\id (though this naturally is op paired with any other defense)

In the end the point was you were wrong that block was decimated because of the new gems they wanted to add, if you can admit this we can be done arguing over this as block was nerfed justifiably and they are making slight improvements with it in 2.0.

I've always felt that Legacies were a bad idea; either GGG believes that something needs to be fixed or that it doesn't.

I wished that they would have at least added a legacy league, where the better legacy versions dropped. Or allowed Standard to drop legacy items, while temp leagues drop only fixed ones.

But an idea just occurred that might be tremendously amusing.

A new Zana map mod - Legacy. High cost map mod, works the same as League mods; legacy uniques can drop and be chanced inside.

What do you guys think?

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goetzjam wrote:

Enlighten us if you have another unqiue you think was "broken" in terms of block. My main concern back then was spell block as up until 2.0 you have the ability to easily sustain complete physical immunity.

More misleading arguments, block chance has always been capped at 75% and never on its own provided "complete physical immunity". Hard to see how you'd conflate that exploit with Spell Block, which is primarily used as a defense from elemental damage.

Here's another Unique whose block stats can be exploited along with Bringer of Rain:

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Caroigne wrote:

I've always felt that Legacies were a bad idea; either GGG believes that something needs to be fixed or that it doesn't.

I wished that they would have at least added a legacy league, where the better legacy versions dropped. Or allowed Standard to drop legacy items, while temp leagues drop only fixed ones.

But an idea just occurred that might be tremendously amusing.

A new Zana map mod - Legacy. High cost map mod, works the same as League mods; legacy uniques can drop and be chanced inside.

What do you guys think?

While that is a solution for them to be fair to new players, it isn't fair for older players that either paid a premium or found said items with the rolls pre adjustment.

I dredged up the original legacy item thread, filtered to just GGG replies to avoid necro bump.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/314098/filter-account-type/staff

GGG isn't too happy with legacy items, either, so you're preaching to the choir. They are willing to accept them as the price of progress, though. Maybe you should, too.

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RogueMage wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Enlighten us if you have another unqiue you think was "broken" in terms of block. My main concern back then was spell block as up until 2.0 you have the ability to easily sustain complete physical immunity.

More misleading arguments, block chance has always been capped at 75% and never on its own provided "complete physical immunity". Hard to see how you'd conflate that exploit with Spell Block, which is primarily used as a defense from elemental damage.

Here's another Unique whose block stats were exploited along with Bringer of Rain:

Ok first of all my argument isn't misleading at all. I never said that block provides that, I said up until 2.0 we have the ability to sustain complete physical immunity, I didn't specify specifically there, but its obvious I was talking about cwdt\ec\ic\id

In regards to spell block, thats what was really strong about block builds, they required very little investment in the tree and basically even less in gear to achieve max block and high spell block, which is extremely strong. If +max res is strong, spell block is stronger.

Anvil IMO wasn't that strong. Its a nice unqiue, movement speed, attack and cast speed penalties made it lackluster. If anything that unqiue is stronger after 1.3 because of the investment in tree is too high for many players. At the same time if you are using that unqiue you aren't using stone for spell block, which IMO is much stronger then regular block.

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goetzjam wrote:

In regards to spell block, thats what was really strong about block builds, they required very little investment in the tree and basically even less in gear to achieve max block and high spell block, which is extremely strong.

It took my Patch 1.2 Marauder 18 skill points to gain 34% chance to block from the skill tree. That is not what I'd dismiss as "very little investment".

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

I dredged up the original legacy item thread, filtered to just GGG replies to avoid necro bump.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/314098/filter-account-type/staff

GGG isn't too happy with legacy items, either, so you're preaching to the choir. They are willing to accept them as the price of progress, though. Maybe you should, too.

I'm aware, but still, it would be nice to have a way to avoid rent seeking behavior (it's on of those things that put some standard economy in temporal leagues).