Legacy items are bullshit

@ScrotieMcB

With the addition of master league specific items are no longer classified as "legacy" you can still get them if you invest enough time, currency and RNG into it. Not to mention I think a couple of them might be added as divination cards.

We understand that your problem is with people having better then now droppable rolls on items. I'm sorry but pretty much everything that has needed to be said about this topic has been. You won't have a very high amount of people agreeing with you here as most that post are one of the following people:

A) I have legacies, I found them, I earned them, you shouldn't take that away.

B) I don't have legacies its crap I can't find the best items in the game.

C) I dont care I play in the temp leagues, why don't you? They don't drop there.

D) I have them and don't care they are more of a collector item.


and my personal fav

E) Its not fair, if I can't have them no one should be able to.


To the person that thinks RMT has any affect on if GGG should make something legacy or not, no just no. People willing to spend money on buying digital items in a game don't just do it because they want "op" items they do it because they can or its more time efficient for them to do it.

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goetzjam wrote:

We understand that your problem is with people having better then now droppable rolls on items.

You understand poorly. Have you even read my recent posts?

Just to clarify:

• I am not against GGG nerfing items because they deem them overpowered (although it shouldn't be done too often)
• I am not against GGG making a previously available item no longer drop, while the original items persist, except...
• I am against GGG making a previously available item now drop only in a nerfed state, because the original version was deemed overpowered, while the original items persist

It's not about jealousy. It's that either it is OP, or it isn't. Balance isn't Schrödinger's fucking cat.

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goetzjam wrote:

Counter attack was added only after they nerfed block and IIRC was added to make investing into block have some return to help with the lost damage you now had because you had to invest much more into gear\tree to get full block.

So please next time you think about spreading information like this that GGG nerfed block across the board to add these new gems, don't it simply isn't true, block was extremely OP on its own and that nerf was 100% justified. The only item(s) that IMO shouldn't have been touched by it were the 2nd version BoR, anvil and Wings, everything else should have and were justified nerfed.

With the block nerf, GGG eviscerated virtually every affected build without the slightest warning or foreshadowing of their intentions. Why such a drastic nerf was made to a longstanding game mechanic remained a mystery until the other shoe dropped with the near immediate release of the counter-attack-on-block gems. Anyone paying attention at the time could readily see the obvious 1+1=2 connection. It was just like the recent Reduced Mana episode, where GGG abruptly decimated an existing game mechanism before introducing its replacement in a later patch.

As for the counter-attack gems themselves, they're a total failure that in no way compensates for the destruction of virtually every previous build that relied on block. That Facebreaker build I resorted to after Patch 1.3? It actually uses two of the counter-attack gems, just to find out if there was some way to make them viable in an endgame build. My conclusion after witnessing them in action is that Facebreaker is pretty much the only way to make a block build where counter-attack gems serve any useful purpose at all.

<Edited by support>

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I am against GGG making a previously available item now drop only in a nerfed state, because the official version was deemed overpowered, while the original items persist

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We understand that your problem is with people having better then now droppable rolls on items.

That literally says the same thing in different wording.....

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With the block nerf, GGG eviscerated virtually every affected build without the slightest warning or foreshadowing of their intentions. Why such a drastic nerf was made to a longstanding game mechanic remained a mystery until the other shoe dropped with the near immediate release of the counter-attack-on-block gems. Anyone paying attention at the time could readily see the obvious 1+1=2 connection. It was just like the recent Reduced Mana episode, where GGG abruptly decimated an existing game mechanism before introducing its replacement in a later patch.

As for the counter-attack gems themselves, they're a total failure that in no way compensates for the destruction of virtually every previous build that relied on block. That Facebreaker build I resorted to after Patch 1.3? It actually uses two of the counter-attack gems, just to find out if there was some way to make them viable in an endgame build. My conclusion after witnessing them in action is that Facebreaker is pretty much the only way to make a block build where counter-attack gems serve any useful purpose at all.

If you were around these here forums you would have seen people were calling for block nerf, much like calling for crit nerfs. They got what they asked for, probably a bit more TBH.

The mechanic of block was not abused to the same level it was until the addition of atziri, when people figured out the best way to not take damage was to block it, especially spell block. Now you have to invest into getting max block, which should have been the case the whole time, now you can't stack it with the 2nd best form of mitigation (acro\phase). Pretty soon you won't benefit from the automatic immortality when you don't block (physical damage that is)

Comparing the reduced mana change to the global block nerf is not anywhere close to comparable. The only thing that is the abruptness that might have been seen if you weren't aware, a more comparable shock would be the EB change where people have been claiming its too OP for the longest time and needed a change. Although nothing in PoE has ever came close to as broken as max block, spell block and acro, at least from a defensive standpoint.

As far as counter attack gems go personally I don't think they are good, the only one that was was vengeance when it worked with facebreakers and they removed that and there was pretty huge outrage about it. As far as the other gems go, you could make it work with a block and sword build given the nodes on the tree.

But I think you should agree with me here and others probably will that GGG didn't nerf block to add these new gems, GGG historically hasn't had the foresight to nerf something ahead of time in order to make something less OP, thats typically always an after thought.

I think it's important to note, Scrotie, that for the most part the nerfed version of a unique item is only slightly-less-good. There's only one Black Lotus I can think of: Kaoms Heart.

In almost every other case, we're talking about adding a green mana to the cost, or adding a colorless to the tap cost of (whatever). I see nothing in standard that's hideously game breaking in it's unnerfed form. Feel free to point out any examples to the contrary.

If all legacy items were as drastically different as Kaoms, I see how it could be a bigger problem.

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goetzjam wrote:

That literally says the same thing in different wording.....

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Antnee wrote:

If all legacy items were as drastically different as Kaoms, I see how it could be a bigger problem.

Soul taker & bringer come to mind.

Pretty much every one after that has been "adjustments" to make them less desirable to use these ones were strait up murder.

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goetzjam wrote:

But I think you should agree with me here and others probably will that GGG didn't nerf block to add these new gems, GGG historically hasn't had the foresight to nerf something ahead of time in order to make something less OP, thats typically always an after thought.

Bullshit, it wasn't just a balance tweak, which is what a "nerf" traditionally is, it was wholesale sabotage of virtually every block build in play. Block was in no way comparable to the blatant overkill of unconstrained crit, and it was not a subject of raging forum debates like crit was. And GGG's response to each case was perversely unbalanced - a slap on the wrist for crit builds that left them largely intact versus a scorched earth decimation of block builds that left them in ruins.

This was not the first time GGG made changes to block nodes, but in previous patches those changes were aimed at fine-tuning the numerous investments required to maximize block chance. The drastic nature of Patch 1.3 made it obvious that this time, GGG's aim was not to bring a long-standing game mechanic back into balance, but to degrade it so severely that players would be forced to abandon block builds for something else. The putative debate over whether block was previously OP or not was nothing more than a smokescreen to divert attention from that intended result.

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RogueMage wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

But I think you should agree with me here and others probably will that GGG didn't nerf block to add these new gems, GGG historically hasn't had the foresight to nerf something ahead of time in order to make something less OP, thats typically always an after thought.

Bullshit, it wasn't just a balance tweak, which is what a "nerf" traditionally is, it was wholesale sabotage of virtually every block build in play. Block was in no way comparable to the blatant overkill of unconstrained crit, and it was not a subject of raging forum debates like crit was. And GGG's response to each case was perversely unbalanced - a slap on the wrist for crit builds that left them largely intact versus a scorched earth decimation of block builds that left them in ruins.

This was not the first time GGG made changes to block nodes, but in previous patches those changes were aimed at fine-tuning the numerous investments required to maximize block chance. The drastic nature of Patch 1.3 made it obvious that this time, GGG's aim was not to bring a long-standing game mechanic back into balance, but to degrade it so severely that players would be forced to abandon block builds for something else. The putative debate over whether block was previously OP or not was nothing more than a smokescreen to divert attention from that intended result.

We are getting off topic here with this discussion, although block is technically legacy roll on items so maybe it won't be purged because of that.

Did you read what I said, GGG didn't nerf block to add these new gems are you disagreeing with that or something else I said?

I am going to assume something else because you can't be so naive to think GGG thought ahead of time to nerf the whole tree, block chance on gear simply for some gems, never in the history of PoE have the predicatively nerfed something.

It was absolutely a balance change, one that many builds suffered (unjustly because of) but one that was 100% necessary.

Theres 2 parts to this argument first is block\spell block was the best defensive mechanic in the game, period you can't argue that.

Second is crit has been a "problem" in many peoples eyes for a long time, GGG has been adjusting crit down naturally over time, to a point where they think it can still function fine with investment, but no longer get as crazy multipliers. They want crit chance to remain high, but the damage spike to not go as high, which is understandable.

I guess you don't recall the 100's of post about how 2 handed sucked because shields were "too good"? They've been nerfing the resistance implicit on them, the bonus resist from shields nodes and similar type of adjustments to them, but it wasn't until 1.3 that they made getting max block a sacrifice, like it should have been the whole time.

The intended result was to make max block not the automatic grab few nodes, get 2 unqiues and have the best defenses in the game. Now if you invest into it you will sacrifice in multiple ways. You can't say with a strait face max block + spell block wasn't broken. You can't say it was fine that it fully stacked with acro\phase. The nerf was justified regardless of your build.

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goetzjam wrote:

The intended result was to make max block not the automatic grab few nodes, get 2 unqiues and have the best defenses in the game... The nerf was justified regardless of your build.

As usual, cite a special case where grossly unbalanced Uniques were exploited to abuse a fundamental game mechanism, and twist that into an excuse for demolishing virtually every build that relied on that mechanism, so that only the abusers are left with viable builds. Top it off by anointing the pay2win Uniques with Legacy status, and consign them to the care of the rmt-fueled vultures who know very well how to make the most of their potential.