What should we expect in 0.9.4 ?

iv been playing since mid august ... and dont see how come now its beter then it was before ... realy with every patch coming out the lack of balance between witch/templar (mage) and the other classes only keeps getting bigger and bigger ... now realy iv been playing dualist dw - cleave all this time and i cant see what is the benefit of playing any other class then a mage ...

and i bet with the new class coming out 85% of people will be playing with it ... coz this will be the only logical choice to make, so that u can enjoy the game and exp. a normal gameplay

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Look at the HC ladder, you will see upper levels (40+) of each class represented. That was simply not possible a few months ago.

Hardcore is and stays not the core of any game. And shouldnt be treated as such, since it's a complete other approach of gaming. every game i know defines his self and gets defined over the softcore mode (with the dark souls series on consoles as exeption). that beeing said, i hope (and i'm sure)you mean that people should see a progression and not that the current balancing is without flaws.

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ronda174 wrote:

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Look at the HC ladder, you will see upper levels (40+) of each class represented. That was simply not possible a few months ago.

Hardcore is and stays not the core of any game. And shouldnt be treated as such, since it's a complete other approach of gaming. every game i know defines his self and gets defined over the softcore mode (with the dark souls series on consoles as exeption). that beeing said, i hope (and i'm sure)you mean that people should see a progression and not that the current balancing is without flaws.

My point Ronda was that if people can reach what is considered upper levels (at the moment) for every class, then the game is not in the state that some are alleging it to be, because if it were, you wouldn't see the kind of diversity that we do.

Yes the game still has flaws, and still needs balancing, but people are on here saying that it is a worse game then it was a few months ago, and that is absolutely not true.

SC ladders mean nothing, only that you chose to invest a lot of time into a character. However, HC ladders do mean something, because it would be impossible for an underpowered or broken class to reach the top levels, without dieing.

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drezdenfonpux wrote:

iv been playing since mid august ... and dont see how come now its beter then it was before ... realy with every patch coming out the lack of balance between witch/templar (mage) and the other classes only keeps getting bigger and bigger ... now realy iv been playing dualist dw - cleave all this time and i cant see what is the benefit of playing any other class then a mage ...

and i bet with the new class coming out 85% of people will be playing with it ... coz this will be the only logical choice to make, so that u can enjoy the game and exp. a normal gameplay

We must be playing different games.

Yes the Templar needs some work.. not sure why you keep bringing up the Witch. You say the other classes aren't balanced but you are playing a dualist, not sure how that makes sense.

Yes when the new class is released a lot of people will play it, same thing happened when the Templar was released, not sure what the issue is with that.

My only point is this:

If the classes are in the state that you claim they are in, then why is the HC ladder composed of a combination of every class.. Dualist/witch/templar/ranger/Marauder?

If the Witch was the only viable class, then that is the only class that you would see on the HC ladder. Why do you see the Witch all over the SC ladders? Because the witch was op'd and is an easy class to play, and now with reflect auras introduced you are seeing members of the community complain that their 100% glass cannon build is no longer viable.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

However, HC ladders do mean something, because it would be impossible for an underpowered or broken class to reach the top levels, without dieing.

that's true, but there are 2 sides of the spectrum and how you define the word "power". on the low end power could mean surviveabiliy(which is ofc essential in hc) and a certain damageoutput. when i talk about power and i refer this to the softcore mode, then it means killing fast. noone cares how many times your char died ingame, when he kills faster or easier than others, he should be considered as overpowered.

(btw i'm not contributing anything in the soft- vs hardcore issue, i thnink it comes down to personal preference)

Yes Ronda, but we are talking about class balance. That is my point, if the classes weren't balanced then you wouldn't see the kind of diversity that you do in the HC ladder. I am not trying to start a conversation about "whats better HC or SC" only that, as a rubric HC ladders are a good indication of overall class balance.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Yes Ronda, but we are talking about class balance. That is my point, if the classes weren't balanced then you wouldn't see the kind of diversity that you do in the HC ladder. I am not trying to start a conversation about "whats better HC or SC" only that, as a rubric HC ladders are a good indication of overall class balance.

but survivability is just one part of balancing. :P

or let me state it like this:

i have no fun not dying, i have fun slaughtering.

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ronda174 wrote:

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Yes Ronda, but we are talking about class balance. That is my point, if the classes weren't balanced then you wouldn't see the kind of diversity that you do in the HC ladder. I am not trying to start a conversation about "whats better HC or SC" only that, as a rubric HC ladders are a good indication of overall class balance.

but survivability is just one part of balancing. :P

or let me state it like this:

i have no fun not dying, i have fun slaughtering.

Okay I am not sure you are understanding my point.

Yes being able to kill effectively and survive are both equally required for any build to be called "viable", since the HC ladder is composed of every class, then it seems that every class can kill and survive in a viable manner, which means that the classes are (at least) relatively balanced...

Yes, I miss the days where you could slay monsters quick but you could die quick. This is how things work in an aRPG. You kill really fast, you'll die really fast... That's the balance for me in these type of games.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Okay I am not sure you are understanding my point.

why shouldn't i. there are several thing that make a build viable to me. but i have some softcore thoughts forya:

what makes me stubborn is actually the simple mechanics of envy and equality. when i want to get my gear to get viable(as you posted in another thread) then i have to farm to reach this certain point, some classes more than others(i think a clear part of balance).

when i see and feel that a certain char finds lets say 30yellows per hour and i find 5 pieces related to killspeed,etc., then i get the feeling something isnt right, especially if the circumstances to achieve these high amount of rares happens with the same amount or in this case even less of preparation, requirements and skill.

e: this aswell accelerates like the old nut: the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. why should i take a poor build?