Ondar's Guile nerf

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I genuinely believe 30-50% increase not much more than your base chance to evade.

take a 50% increase tied to your 55% base evasion

55 * (100 + 50 )/100 = 82.5% chance to evade projectiles

was at the 95% cap before nerf

30% increase would only be = 71% chance to evade projectiles

Somewhere in there is fine for me having to run down there from acrobatics as shadow or over as maru or duelly. You only look at it from ranger PoV.

Getting 55%-157% 'more' effective health against projectiles isn't much? Granted, it's a damn sight less than the current 800% 'more' effective health you'd get in that scenario right now, but that doesn't come anywhere close to balanced without a downside.


To put it into an elemental perspective, that would be the equivalent of getting about +9~15% max resist... to get even +9% max resist passively without any downside at all? It'd be ludicrous.

yeah the old one was a bit silly, at 50% chance to evade you are getting hit by 1 out of every 2 projectiles, at 95% chance to evade you are getting hit by 1 out of every 20 projectiles... it does have that relationship like resists where the closer you get to 100 the more 1% actually means. If we forget cap and look at 95%, 1 in 20, vs 99%, 1 in 100, that last 4% chance to evade is absolutely monstrous as the gap between hits is just getting ridiculously large.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

yeah the old one was a bit silly, at 50% chance to evade you are getting hit by 1 out of every 2 projectiles, at 95% chance to evade you are getting hit by 1 out of every 20 projectiles... it does have that relationship like resists where the closer you get to 100 the more 1% actually means. If we forget cap and look at 95%, 1 in 20, vs 99%, 1 in 100, that last 4% chance to evade is absolutely monstrous as the gap between hits is just getting ridiculously large.

Exactly. The thing is, the evasion formula effectively takes this into account, making it harder to add those additional 1%'s through raw evasion rating, but Ondar's essentially allows you to bypass that difficulty in scaling by modifying the chance to evade directly, even with the new form.

In fact, Ondar's ability to bypass the difficulty in evasion scaling becomes relatively stronger the more chance to evade you already have. I mentioned at 55% base chance to evade, getting '30% increased chance to evade' amounts to an additional ~55% effective health against projectiles... but at just a 60% base chance to evade (5% higher base chance), picking up '30% increased chance to evade' would now jump to adding ~81% effective health versus projectiles instead. And it just keeps becoming a stronger and stronger health amp the more base chance to evade you get (well, up to ~73% anyway, which would cap chance to evade projectiles)


Without some downside, it would still be objectively overpowered, even at just 30% increased chance.


Now if, on the other hand, it were to simply grant you 30% more evasion rating against projectiles? That'd be a bit of a different story, as that would translate to a less significant (not to mention much more consistent and stable) effective health amp, susceptible to the increased difficulty of adding the aforementioned "1%'s". But with the way it grants its bonus directly to the evade chance, it really is quite comparable to +max resists, and in return needs to have a comparable level of downside (to follow with the analogy, something comparable to -max resist of a different element)

OFC is was silly but now way over nerf. If the 20% more melee component stay in I can guarantee you it becomes about as used as conduit is now because melee enemies is way more prolific and more damage dealing than projectiles. Not on;y that many melee skills are getting buffed while projectiles are getting nerfed.

It will need to be changed in Path of Melee 2.0.

Ondars is useless keystone #3

Useless or not overpowered?

It was too powerfull, broken. Now it becomes not bad, just not bad. It's still decent and wanted for melee eva/bow eva users.

Achieving reflect immunity by grabbing one passive is no longer possible, you'll have to work harder on getting your evasion to cap Ondar's now(Hey, having more than 48% evasion also helps, right?).

my ondars was giving me 95% evasion and i still needed cwdt+ec+ic to stop reflect, and i still needed constant flasking with my phys crit bow char. i knew ondars needed a nerf, keystones should change ur char, not just give it an arbitrary advantage. but this nerf is waaay to huge. ggg made it useless.

ggg sees stats, like ondars is getting picked by 75% of end game chars, or something crazy. but they dont understand whhhyyy. its because reflect MUST be dealt with, and options are crazy limited. now dealing with reflect is either vaal pact or rise of the pheonix, or if core league, acuitys. what else is there? PoI, PoF, PoL? AA? lol... reflect gonna own people in 2.0.0 my bet is we'll see 75% vaal pact users in new leagues.

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HikaruYami wrote:

Evasion was never really meant for Melee.

Because ranger doesn't have 2 main starting paths, one of which is DEFINITELY NOT MELEE....

Is there any first hand beta experience out there? Anybody who actually made a char to endgame maps using Ondars? I would be really glad to hear something useful instead of just "it was too OP it needed nerf" and such BS.