jewels discussion: bringing RNG and Economy to the Passive Tree
" path of exile positions itself as a mix of MMO and RPG, and a COMPETITIVE game. ggg markets poe as a 'hardcore' game, and places emphasis on ladders (temp leagues) and races (even shorter leagues). look around the major streamers. they all are playing hc and temp leagues. given that one can trade anything and with anyone in the game, it absolutely HAS to be balanced around trading. there is no other way. if a game is competitive and balances around someone who plays 10 hours a week, someone who plays 50 hours as week will beat everything the game has to offer in a week or two and will leave. moreover, there is no way to have an economy, and NOT balance on trading, because then all items will cost shit. of course YOU dont care about it, but others do. if you play 10 hours a week, tough shit, the game's not for you. you're not the intended core audience. SSF people are also no intended audience and will never be the intended audience. this game is about partying, grinding, and trading first and foremost. you can play it with handicap, but knowingly playing it with handicap and COMPLAINING that playing with handicap sucks is mind-boggling. TL2 and TQ and such might be great games, but they dont have ladders or races. they dont have to be balanced around anything. and largely, they weren't. TL2 skills and classes in vanilla are an unbalanced mess. the problem of your view, and the op's view, is that they want the game to be one way, when its the other way. instead of accepting the game as is, you want to keep what you like and crap on everything you dont like, with self-entitlement thrown in. you're coming to a japanese restaurant and ordering an american steak every time with a fork. at some point the restaurant stops carrying forks, so you stand up and start shit with the owners. this is how I read this thread, on john and "his" tree. |
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" I snipped this sentence because your entire argument is based on this utterly false premise and thus falls flat. Even Blizzard realized this and removed trading completely when they decided to balance around self-found play. You can't have trade without a balance around trade, period. GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" yep, I dont really understand how people dont understand this concept. trading will always be a faster way to progress in an arpg game as long as it exists. and especially in 2015. and you balance a competitive game around the fastest possible progress not slowest or below average Last edited by grepman#2451 on Apr 17, 2015, 3:40:22 PM
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I am looking forward to jewels in the passive tree. More depth in character development is always a plus for me.
As for trading: this is PoE. Trading is part of the game by design. I enjoy it. It gives items some sort of "real" value. I always enjoyed that in Ultima Online and D2. I very much missed it in other games. That is also why I find offline games utterly boring. No economy. Booooring. Edit: I also appreciate how GGG is handeling additions to itemization. Instead of replacing the best-in-slot items and devaluating the stuff that we "earned" so far, they find new ways to improve your items. They have done this with vaal orbs and now they do it with jewels. That is way better thant what Blizzard does: with each expansion everything is essentially reset, all progress is lost. Last edited by Faendris#5470 on Apr 17, 2015, 4:02:13 PM
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" You can, look at any arpg ever made, including games like d2 as pure proof. You still didnt answer what positive things a game balance around economy brings to this type of games. |
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" we had this discussion a million times before: "hardcore", "competitive"... but answer me one question, which pretty much sums up this thread. both you and Xav: why must the one thing which wasn't yet balanced around RNG and Trade, and is a huge part of what draws most players into the game - SF, and traders alike - get RNG injected into it? don't we have enough of that crap in every. single. damn. part of the game already? sure, the game is balanced around trade. but where do you draw the line? where do you say "I have to keep this an ARPG"? can Chris/Jonathan/Qarl answer this question? Jewels - as a concept of "dynamically changing builds" - are a great idea. Jewels - as an actual implementation - may very likely be the last straw of overwhelming trade-simulator, real-RNG-everywhere design, which could make me quit. 2.5 years of being completely addicted to this game... takes one hell of a screw-up to make me quit - and littering the Passive Tree with RNG, taking away what little deterministic control I have over my own character, is exactly that. Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat Shadow: That was fun Last edited by johnKeys#6083 on Apr 17, 2015, 4:05:07 PM
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" Easy: if you do not balance around trading and allow trading then someone who does trade will be done (i.e. have optimal gear / max level) with the game quite fast. I appreciate it that it takes almost forever to have perfect gear in PoE even if you DO trade. |
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"you cannot have a competitive game with unrestricted trade, balanced not around trade. just like you cannot have a competitive not-online-only game in 2015 you still fail to understand that this shit is strictly binary either you have an economy and trading and competitiveness, or you have no trading/no economy and no balance around trading. or no competitiveness. not balancing the game around economy simply means no economy. so again, you want it to be one way when the game is another way- its plainly stated by devs that economy is one of the features THEY feel is important to the game. |
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" Not correct. If you do not balance the game around trading, and leave high tear of items to be rare like d2 for people like you, than no people will not have max out characters easy, as I sai din my post. |
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" Well then it IS balanced around trading, isn't it? |
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