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Stun... physical damage only?Not in POE

i'm not saying that elemental dmg shouldn't stun but it should be checked against something else, maybe both stuns should:
- melee/physical stun % checked vs armor (phys dmg takes life after armor mitigation)
- elemental stun % checked vs resists (elem damage takes life after resist mitigation)
- chaos dmg maybe should stun check vs life alone
Last edited by kreca74 on Mar 21, 2015, 6:25:56 AM
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johnKeys wrote:
always wondered, why spells can stun...

there are mechanics in the game I don't agree with, but which at least make sense logically.
like Armour for example: really don't like the "bigger hit = less mitigation" thing, but yeah if you are a heavy-armoured tank and you get hit by a Nuke, it's not going to save you.

spells that stun, are something else.
if you get hit by a huge magical fireball, there are a couple possible outcomes.
"dead", or "burning", for example.
"stunned", isn't one of them. it makes no sense. you got hit by energy, not a Cannonball.


That's pretty fail logic there Mr. Keys

If I got electrocuted or hit by a fireball, I'm fairly sure I would be at least momentarily "stunned" or, to put it another way, "awestruck"


you'd be Shocked, not stunned. which is exactly my point.
Status Effects make a lot of sense depending on the element you're hit with (though in the specific case of Shock in PoE, it's debatable if Electric Shock actually causes you to take extra damage for its duration).

Stun doesn't.

@Vipermagi, in D&D, Fireball Spells don't really explode because there isn't anything solid in them which can detonate. they are magically-heated "air" which engulfs the target, igniting it, and the Area Of Effect is generated by the flames spreading on impact, rather than "exploding".
the target itself (mostly an object) can sometimes explode due to the generated heat, which is another story.

so no, spell Stun still doesn't make sense, in my opinion.
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun
I'd say spells should not stun, but elemental ATTACKS should.

Bow stunning sounds weird also (but not as bad as spell stuns), so I'd go with that. But melee elemental hits should still stun.

Physical spells stunning... I dunno, maybe? They would be somewhat "more special" (note: they already are) because of the ability to stun. It is like they create actual physical things that are able to hit your face and stun you... I dunno : - D

Maybe change stun duration on various stun sources? Like bows can still stun, but only 1/2 of the duration compared to melee? Because bows still can do physical damage.

But overall I'd say OP has a point. (even tho he is a massive troll overall, teehee.)
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
https://joeduncan123.imgur.com
https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com
Last edited by Perq on Mar 21, 2015, 8:38:32 AM
Stunning would still need to work close up as a way to avoid just getting mauled to death as a shotgun caster. Stuns help reduce the amount of damage that gets through to the player, speaking as a self found player who can't get the perfect delete-every-mob setup so quickly it's been a useful tool to help me survive in otherwise dire situations.

Maybe stun chances would be better off with Point Blank style logic...?
I'd be all for that: not melee-only but melee-biased instead.
That weird self found player who doesn't aim for any build? Yeah that's me, hi.
Self-Found No-Death No-Log Merciless Dom; hell yeah! Now will I ever do it in HC...? Oh dear.
P.S. Please delete Magnus and all Devourers.
Last edited by CajNatalie on Mar 22, 2015, 12:40:20 PM
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johnKeys wrote:
@Vipermagi, in D&D, Fireball Spells don't really explode[..]

The D&D Fireball's description explicitly mentions an explosion. It also mentions the explosion creates next to no pressure, however. Now let's look at the only relevant description in the whole fucking world, namely the one in Path of Exile:
"Unleashes a ball of fire towards a target which explodes, dealing Fire Damage."

You can find as many examples of superheated air as you like, the PoE description is the only one that matters. It literally says the fireball creates an explosion, and nothing more.

(e; oh actually, it does mention the pea)
Last edited by Vipermagi on Mar 23, 2015, 8:39:55 AM
it was never my intention to anger you, Vipermagi.
while you do have a point in saying, since PoE defines Fireball and perhaps the greatest "offender" in terms of Stun - Firestorm - as "exploding on impact", other spells are not defined as such, and yet still can cause Stun.

but the biggest reason I'm against Spell Stun, isn't a D&D definition each of us is reading differently.
it's the fact Elemental Spells already have the ability to Crit and cause Status Ailments, AND the ability to Shotgun in some cases, stacking multiple instances of damage.

Stun, should really be the "physical Status Ailment".
it makes good sense, and it's a form of inner balance between what Physical and Elemental damage can do in the game.
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun
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johnKeys wrote:
it was never my intention to anger you, Vipermagi.
while you do have a point in saying, since PoE defines Fireball and perhaps the greatest "offender" in terms of Stun - Firestorm - as "exploding on impact", other spells are not defined as such, and yet still can cause Stun.

but the biggest reason I'm against Spell Stun, isn't a D&D definition each of us is reading differently.
it's the fact Elemental Spells already have the ability to Crit and cause Status Ailments, AND the ability to Shotgun in some cases, stacking multiple instances of damage.

Stun, should really be the "physical Status Ailment".
it makes good sense, and it's a form of inner balance between what Physical and Elemental damage can do in the game.


So, what bleeding is?
I don't think making it "physical status ailment" makes any sense, since it doesn't even seem to be status ailment, because every other status ailment can be dispelled with a flask.

Stun is stun, and we should discuss it whenever it makes sense from a balance and strength point of view. I do agree that elemental does already have status ailments, and stacking stun on top of it makes it quite OP.

HOWEVER, dealing elemental damage doesn't mean you'll be using statuses they apply in every case (burning being useless, if you don't invest into it), unless crit (crits always applying statuses is kind of OP). Same way you don't always aim for status ailments with elemental damage, you don't always aim for bleeding with physical, or stun AT ALL.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
https://joeduncan123.imgur.com
https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com
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Sexcalibure wrote:
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AgnosiousD wrote:
If stun passives were more available to casters...

then there would only ever be casters.

OP.
this gives more than the whole tree does all source combined


and eats up a gem slot. usful if you run out of damage stacking gems which there are many.


if you use ground slam you have

melee physical
added fire
conc effect
weapon elemental
melee damage on full life
added damage of X
.
.
.
then stun

the best stun build in the game was an elemental 1 handed ground slam that had the off hand stun claw and a shit load of elemental damage on auras and items.
but now its all gone to crap with all the nerfs

plus for stun to really work , you need all the threshold reduction imaginable because of the massive nerf to stun but if you do that you lose damage needed for stun...
Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Mar 25, 2015, 1:48:33 PM
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Sexcalibure wrote:
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Shagsbeard wrote:
Most stun builds focus on physical because of where the stun mods are in the tree. I would have put stun only on physical, and only on melee. The idea of a ranged stun is really strong.
I actually started the discussion because i asked if a stun bower was a viable idea... was interested by the idea because of Craghead's 25%


I use craghead with ball lightning and warlords mark to cause stuns. It's fun to watch, like they're actually being electrocuted.

I think removing stun from elemental damage would pretty much just limit odd builds, not really make physical any more special. Thematically I'm ok with any big hit of anything being able to stun someone.

If anything I'd be interested to see status ailments decoupled from crits and possibly even moved onto stuns instead. Would be odd, but mean that "chance to x" would no longer be completely overshadowed by crits. As it is currently, you are already likely to stun with a crit, but not guaranteed, so having some chance to x or stun mods would be necessary. Builds that aim towards slower single hits would be the most likely to cause status ailments, instead of the current trend of getting as many hits out as possible to cause as many crits as possible.
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Last edited by Wooser69 on Mar 25, 2015, 8:18:36 PM

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