Elemental Proliferation is fine.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Note that projectile penalties double-dip. With LMP the 10000 hit becomes 7000, and the 15000 burn becomes 7500. But +2 projectiles. Whoop de doo.

I don't think this is correct, LMP is less projectile damage, while prolif is an aura.

It has nothing to do with Prolif. "Projectile" damage modifiers apply to ignites caused by projectiles. This works both ways; increased projectile damage from the tree improves the Burning damage of your Fireballs and Pyre-fueled Arctic Breaths, double-dipping the same way Fire damage does.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

I'm fully aware that ignite+prolif builds can clear a screen in seconds, but my argument is that ignite is at fault here, not Prolif.

You have to admit prolif does offer quite a few extras compared to simple skill coverage increases like LMP.

- overlapping prolifs will choose the highest value, this can make a huge difference
- double dipping from aoe modifiers; getting aoe increases has diminishing return (like getting a lot of everything), and using prolif is basically equivalent to adding +30 base radius to your skill, this interaction is insanely powerful - it's like adding LMP and GMP to the same skill with no penalty

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It has nothing to do with Prolif. "Projectile" damage modifiers apply to ignites caused by projectiles. This works both ways; increased projectile damage from the tree improves the Burning damage of your Fireballs and Pyre-fueled Arctic Breaths, double-dipping the same way Fire damage does.

That means it double dips from Concentrated Effect when applied by an area skill. I remember looking up prolif and Conc. not long ago and they said it doesn't double dip. Maybe what they meant is it doesn't triple dip. :D
I think you're right, I stand corrected.

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Zed_ wrote:

it's like adding LMP and GMP to the same skill with no penalty

It's more nuts than that, there's no single support that compares. It's like GMP + fork or cast when you hit (yes, doesn't exist) + ice nova/discharge.

Honestly that's probably the first thing that should be nerfed, it's insane AOE. Splash and prolif basically do the same thing for different skills, yet splash is 12 range and prolif is 31.

Being generous, prolif range shouldn't be over 15. Especially considering most of the skills it's used with are AOE skills already, or could be made into one. All bets are off when using an AOE skill so AOE buffs end up double dipping, you know, like for flameblast.

Conc + Prolif + Burning Arrow doesn't work. Burning Arrow isn't an AoE skill.

Conc + Vaal Burning Arrow (with or without Prolif) double-dips on burning damage, because Vaal Burning Arrow is an AoE skill.

If you're using Molten Strike + Conc + GMP, it won't count at all for the main hit, but Conc bonus will double-dip on the rocks, and the GMP penalty will also double-dip.

Etc.

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Honestly that's probably the first thing that should be nerfed, it's insane AOE. Splash and prolif basically do the same thing for different skills, yet splash is 12 range and prolif is 31.

Splash is actually 14 not 12.

And quality gives:

+1% increased Area of Effect radius per

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Moosifer wrote:

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Zed_ wrote:

it's like adding LMP and GMP to the same skill with no penalty

It's more nuts than that, there's no single support that compares. It's like GMP + fork or cast when you hit (yes, doesn't exist) + ice nova/discharge.

Honestly that's probably the first thing that should be nerfed, it's insane AOE. Splash and prolif basically do the same thing for different skills, yet splash is 12 range and prolif is 31.

Being generous, prolif range shouldn't be over 15. Especially considering most of the skills it's used with are AOE skills already, or could be made into one. All bets are off when using an AOE skill so AOE buffs end up double dipping, you know, like for flameblast.

I can't say I agree. Generally speaking Prolif builds gravitate toward hitting one target hard rather than going big AoE (ex: Flameblast dabbing, Mirrion Instability). About the only Prolif build I can think of which used a naturally big AoE is Discharge. And I don't want to see Prolif's AoE rendered useless for kooky otherwise-singletarget builds like Shield Charge.

I think somewhere in between is a better answer. I agree radius over 30 is unreasonable, and if 30 is even possible it should require work (Empower or maybe Enhance). I'd go 15 radius base, +0.35 per quality myself. (20q 22 radius, +1 if 23q.)

To reiterate, the main thing Prolif needs is a burning damage penalty.

And while we're at it, increase Melee Splash radius to, say, 20 radius 270°, and give it more of a damage penalty to compensate.

Quality bonus on Melee Splash is a sad joke. From 14 to 16 (20q) or 17 (23q).

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To reiterate, the main thing Prolif needs is a burning damage penalty.

That may seem like a simple and easy solution but its among the worst, with a damage penalty for prolif it would just further force builds into going crit as you'd want the highest possible damage because the penalty would make it inefficient to simply do a burning build without a high damage roll.