Elemental Proliferation is fine.

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

If your base damage is 500, it becomes 350*3. At LMP level 16, it is 455*3. This is still before crits and still not counting spells that can shotgun.

This calculation implies shotgunning. I don't know how else to make sense of it.

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azraelb wrote:

stuff

yeah right

i must have done my EA build wrongly because i did it for a 1/20th of your budget and it cleared quite fine, thank you



if you choose the most expensive burn build and decide to go banana with it (lol at that gear 'requirements' sir..) it is your problem. 78s can be easily cleared with a gear worth fraction of your stuff's worth

same with your other points - you make it sound 'difficult' to achieve and yet 'brolif' builds are currently the most popular ones and for a reason. it takes to be a limp blind monkey to fail with prolif build. and even that is not a guarantee.

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Zed_ wrote:

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

If your base damage is 500, it becomes 350*3. At LMP level 16, it is 455*3. This is still before crits and still not counting spells that can shotgun.

This calculation implies shotgunning. I don't know how else to make sense of it.

He means 350 damage each * 3 enemies hit = 350*3 damage total.

And that is the right way to look at it.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

@Albino: You ignite one thing for 500/second. It proliferates to 2 which weren't ignited. You're now dealing 500*3/second. And as your math kinda shows, LMP is OP and needs a nerf bat itaelf.

If you're going to try to use the math to argue my point, you need to use the same scale.

That 500 base damage is only 100 burn damage for 4 seconds = 400 damage--which speaks to how strong burn actually is, regardless of Prolif. So nerfing Prolif wouldn't really solve anything, even if it used your earlier calculation:

25% for non-prolif: 125 * 4s = 500 damage (same as base damage)

vs

15% for prolif: 75 * 4s = 300 damage

Except that LMP can hit for 455 * 3, igniting all 3 for 455 burn dmg each as well... 910 * 3 total damage. Prolif would have to burn 9 targets to exceed LMP's damage, and would take longer to do it. Meanwhile that 4 seconds that those targets burn are filled with more LMP-supported spells being spammed. Again, this is all before you even account for shotgunning.

It would make Prolif a strictly worse option when LMP is available.

The details for Flameblast get more complicated, but end up with the same problem: Opportunity cost isn't worth using Prolif.

Le sigh.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ignite

"

Separate applications of ignite do not stack cumulatively. Each ignite effect remains present on the target until it runs its course, but only the one with the highest damage per second will cause damage at any given moment.

"

The following modifiers will directly affect the damage of Ignite; note that some of these modifiers apply only to the Ignite whereas some may also apply to the skill that triggered it:

• Damage over Time modifiers
• Burning Damage modifiers
• [typeless] Damage modifiers
• Fire Damage modifiers
• Elemental Damage modifiers
• Area Damage modifiers if applied by an Area skill
• Projectile Damage modifiers if applied by a Projectile skill
• Trap Damage modifiers if applied by a Trap
• Mine Damage modifiers if applied by a Mine
• Totem Damage modifiers if applied by a Totem
• Minion Damage modifiers if applied by a Minion

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Le sigh.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ignite

"

Separate applications of ignite do not stack cumulatively. Each ignite effect remains present on the target until it runs its course, but only the one with the highest damage per second will cause damage at any given moment.

The point of this part is? I already know this.

"

"

The following modifiers will directly affect the damage of Ignite; note that some of these modifiers apply only to the Ignite whereas some may also apply to the skill that triggered it:

• Damage over Time modifiers
• Burning Damage modifiers
• [typeless] Damage modifiers
• Fire Damage modifiers
• Elemental Damage modifiers
• Area Damage modifiers if applied by an Area skill
• Projectile Damage modifiers if applied by a Projectile skill
• Trap Damage modifiers if applied by a Trap
• Mine Damage modifiers if applied by a Mine
• Totem Damage modifiers if applied by a Totem
• Minion Damage modifiers if applied by a Minion

Only 2 of those are unique to ignite damage, and these would scale up your non-prolif builds even harder if your proposed changes took effect. The point is not to make Prolif useless. I'm not sure how you think this helps your view. Care to elaborate?

To elaborate, you are (at time of posting) so completely out of touch with how burn builds work that it's embarrassing. Hold on, let me quote your earlier post before you edit it. I want people to know just how wrong you were.
Okay, got that done.

Now here's how burn prolif really works.

You get about 100% increased elemental, 100% increased Fire, and 75% increased burning from tree. You get a Catalyst for another 100% elemental. You get 75% more burning from support gem. You get 50% more fire from gear. Total burn increase is about 500%. These are rough numbers.

Some enemies have fire resistances. Curses turn these resistances negative. An enemy with 30% resist becomes one with -20 resist.

So here's what really happens: when you hit an enemy for 10000 and it ignites, the ignite deals 15000 burning per second. Roughly. About 80% of an endgame burn build's damage potential is in the burning, not the original hit. This allows them to bypass reflect and generally enjoy life.

In farming practice, white mobs are frail, and the full extent of the burn is not utilised. Mobs often die to a fraction of a second of burn after taking the initial hit.

Note that projectile penalties double-dip. With LMP the 10000 hit becomes 7000, and the 15000 burn becomes 7500. But +2 projectiles. Whoop de doo.

I mean, real talk, I don't play Path of Exile anymore. I used to, though, and I have enough brains to check out YouTube videos of farming runs to see what people are doing, and I check out build guide threads to find out how they're doing it. Even the most cursory familiarity with FlameDab would include knowing that proliferated burn is a HUGE factor in its DPS. I might be a little off, but I know my understanding of the situation is closer than yours. Did you just walk into this thread with zero experience and zero research and start making pronouncements?

So your argument hinges on presumption of my knowledge (which you can't know), completely arbitrary numbers outside of any relevant context as opposed to a solid example, and the fact that you don't play but do watch Youtube?

I'm not sure you're in a great position to criticize people's "pronouncements" yourself. Why don't you try forgoing the personal attacks and use a realistic comparison then?

I'm fully aware that ignite+prolif builds can clear a screen in seconds, but my argument is that ignite is at fault here, not Prolif. The math I used earlier was just to give an example of how they compare. Your changes seem aimed at ruining the gem rather than actually "balancing" it--assuming it needs anything more than to just cut off the exploitive aspects of it.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Zed_ wrote:

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

If your base damage is 500, it becomes 350*3. At LMP level 16, it is 455*3. This is still before crits and still not counting spells that can shotgun.

This calculation implies shotgunning. I don't know how else to make sense of it.

He means 350 damage each * 3 enemies hit = 350*3 damage total.

And that is the right way to look at it.

That's just an increase in aoe for projectile skills. That's not what 99% of people mean by damage multiplier. By that logic, the Inreased AoE gem is a damage multiplier. They're conditional damage multipliers, at most, but this language is just confusing.

They are conditional damage multipliers. Precisely. No "at most" involved. (Unless spell shotgunning.)

But you're right; the word "conditional" is important.