Are new players happy with market availability?

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kreca74 wrote:

tnx for replies and feedback.
yes, it could also be a matter of itemization and masters do help but i find the later to be rather limited.
with me talking mostly about things up to and around lvl ~+60ish (Docks merc farming ready):
- you are limited by the number of masters that you can use/have in your hideout at a time (not to mention are you are almost forced to have a Vorici/Elreon just for their orb deals)
- you level faster then your masters do so their master-crafts are of little/limited use while leveling
- the cost of a master-craft is rather expensive. a lvl30ish craft would cost around 3-4 alchs. by the time i hit 60 with my first char in torment, i had less then 2 stacks of alchs (~15 - 17) so master-crafting 3-4 items kinda hurts.
(note: when i got my first master to lvl 8 and saw that a multicraft is 2EX i loled and said ... yea, that's never going to happen)

at one point, i was thinking even at some kind of reimbursement for crafts, via orbs or master options in which one would get some of the craft cost back; penalties depending on the type of currency used or something.
Ex: use 187 fused for a 5link, use the item, but when you're done with it, go to a master(or use an orb) and get, lets say, 10%-25% of the cost back.
i realized that it would totally mess some market prices and had no idea if it could be implemented, but you know, brainstorming doesn't hurt. :)

poe is a good game but i feel there is just to much stuff made pointless in it.

Yes you are limited to the amount of masters you can have and yes the first character in the league suffers because you don't start with leveled masters, but if you complete the quest as you level up you should have some useable mods.

You can craft using vendor recipies listed here:

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vendor_recipes

Scroll down 3/4 the way and you can see you can use recipes to craft weapons for phys, plus 1 (fire\cold\lightning), ect. While this isn't ultimate endgame crafting it is MUCH cheaper then using alchs\chaos to craft leveling weapons.

Multicraft was an interesting idea from GGG, unfortunately it was exploited with its cheap cost and got changed to be relatively cost inefficient to use, especially for solo (newer) players. Its a downside of the system, but really isn't necessary, you can typically buy weapons for less then it would have costed you to craft.

I believe GGG wants to do something about transferring links to another item, I think it should be limited to rare>rare, but not sure what they will do. People don't invest into linking lower level items because they know they will replace it with X piece or Y piece later. So they either A) buy a cheap 5 link, b) use tabula or c) just use a 4 link.

I don't think PoE has that many pointless things in it, could you explain what exactly you think is pointless?

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goetzjam wrote:

Not true master crafting adds that middle ground.

Masters are now the baseline experience. They help a lot, but not even they can help you when your first regal drops at lvl 80, but you'd need it 40 lvls earlier, to buy that multistrike offar :P

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morbo wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Not true master crafting adds that middle ground.

Masters are now the baseline experience. They help a lot, but not even they can help you when your first regal drops at lvl 80, but you'd need it 40 lvls earlier, to buy that multistrike offar :P

Regals can drop while you level, its just extremely rare.

Not to mention almost anyone and everyone will accept other forms of currency for skill gems they don't need. Don't have pure chaos people will take fuses, alts, jews, doesn't really matter.

As a new player, I cannot really say that I am happy or not happy about the market. I enjoy earning my own stuff without buying it from other people; however, I am aware that I could take something extremely rare and trade it in for something that I would find more useful, though I am afraid that nobody would be interested in low-level items. Perhaps I should not fear that. Another issue is that there is lot of information to absorb and lot of info can be still unknown to them. Lot of them may not even be aware that there are tools to help them out in selling items. I spent over 3-4 hours yesterday just reading through guides/game-play mechanics/wiki and feel that I have yet to cover 1%.

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Fliktor wrote:

As a new player, I cannot really say that I am happy or not happy about the market. I enjoy earning my own stuff without buying it from other people; however, I am aware that I could take something extremely rare and trade it in for something that I would find more useful, though I am afraid that nobody would be interested in low-level items. Perhaps I should not fear that. Another issue is that there is lot of information to absorb and lot of info can be still unknown to them. Lot of them may not even be aware that there are tools to help them out in selling items. I spent over 3-4 hours yesterday just reading through guides/game-play mechanics/wiki and feel that I have yet to cover 1%.

Lower level items typically aren't worth much because you have to keep in mind the lower level you are the faster you typically level. So as a player you have to decide do I want to spend X on getting this upgrade only to throw away in 5-10 levels, the answer is typically no, unless its a weapon (or if your playing in HC)

Getting into the game isn't easy. I have a friend that if he had more time would actually play, but he doesn't have as much time as me (or anywhere near it, side effect of kids really) to do so. He enjoys the build i've guided him to use, but time and complexity is an issue.

Don't fear the fact you aren't going to sell lower level items, especially in standard (although I see your playing in torment) or this "late" into the league. People that are leveling characters now (for the most part) already have currency and gear from another character.

PoE is EXTREMELY complex, if in doubt ask or check the wiki, DONT take the first answer you get, especially if it might seem "too good" or "trollish" global 1 can be a very scary thing. I remember many times seeing people vendor items worth a little bit of currency simply because a troll answered and said it was bad. For reference you can check poe.trade, match similar stats (dont do exactly the same) and see if the item is worth something.

Currencies are to be treasured and used only when progressing becomes to difficult without it. Depending on build you are doing, I typically only recommend spending money on weapon upgrades every 10 levels or so. Check out the unique items on the wiki to get an idea of where you should be around.

What PoE really needs is a guide similar to Dota 2's "welcome to dota 2 you suck" The whole idea gives an introduction to mechanics and things you need to know. The information is out there for new players they just need to read, watch, listen and learn.

Part of what makes PoE so great is the complexity of it, if it was as simply as grab this and go with no reproductions along the way, i'd just be hack and slash instead of a full hardcore ARPG game.

EDIT: as always you can PM me if you have specific questions or comments, I am always glad to help players out where I can.

I wouldn't separate item availability from orbs. They both clearly affect the market.

Given it's a trading-based grinding gear and xp game your first hour of play should ideally give you a taste of: some levels, a trade or two and some upgrades to the first things you pick up off the ground either through grind or aforesaid trades. It's not generally achieving the trade part of that currently. Of course, I'm saying that people should be able to easily and quickly undertake a few actions fundamental to the game, not necessarily learn the whole thing in an hour.

Fliktor's point goes to what I was saying. Taking an 2h axe for example, if you look at poe.trade there is nowhere near a consistent supply of items across power ranges (axes having a theoretical highpoint of some 890ish dmg). People are afraid to trade because of the complex system (I know I was) and there's relatively few micro-upgrades early on as well as later in the game.

3 items between 1-50 pdps with buyout. But also 3 axes between 600-650 pdps. 2 axes between 651 and 750.

Lack of early availability because meh 1 alt cbf and lack of late availability because meh orbs never drop i aint crafting just to get 750 pdps might as well save for mirror. Not awesome for market.

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davidnn5 wrote:

I wouldn't separate item availability from orbs. They both clearly affect the market.

Given it's a trading-based grinding gear and xp game your first hour of play should ideally give you a taste of: some levels, a trade or two and some upgrades to the first things you pick up off the ground either through grind or aforesaid trades. It's not generally achieving the trade part of that currently. Of course, I'm saying that people should be able to easily and quickly undertake a few actions fundamental to the game, not necessarily learn the whole thing in an hour.

Fliktor's point goes to what I was saying. Taking an 2h axe for example, if you look at poe.trade there is nowhere near a consistent supply of items across power ranges (axes having a theoretical highpoint of some 890ish dmg). People are afraid to trade because of the complex system (I know I was) and there's relatively few micro-upgrades early on as well as later in the game.

3 items between 1-50 pdps with buyout. But also 3 axes between 600-650 pdps. 2 axes between 651 and 750.

Lack of early availability because meh 1 alt cbf and lack of late availability because meh orbs never drop i aint crafting just to get 750 pdps might as well save for mirror. Not awesome for market.

2 hand axe is probably one of the worst examples you could have used, a very common relatively high DPS axe drops (Kaom's Primacy)

You aren't suppose to be able to craft an endgame ultra high DPS weapon as a casual player, but I can tell you certain unqiue weapons and vendor recipes can carry you thru the game. No new player needs more until they truly understand the game and all the mechanics to invest in more. Also the mirror argument only applies in standard, not that applicable to new players.

I don't know what agenda you are trying to push here davidnn5, but it isn't going to happen.

Don't insult my intelligence please - unless you work for GGG what you say is going to happen has little bearing on the actual outcome, and you know it.

By the way, a 400 dps weapon (kaoms) in a range of 1-890 is not a high damage weapon. Disfavour is middling-high on the scale, but not truly high. And the actual point was about contiguousness of upgrade opportunities and the relative mid-point concentration, not 'gee there is a kaoms'... ?!

You can do the same research on any weapon base and get the same results, almost irrespective of the number of uniques in that base. In fact, I'd really encourage you to do the research yourself because science is good and to be honest, probably something you need more of in your life ;)

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davidnn5 wrote:

Don't insult my intelligence please - unless you work for GGG what you say is going to happen has little bearing on the actual outcome, and you know it.

By the way, a 400 dps weapon (kaoms) in a range of 1-890 is not a high damage weapon. Disfavour is middling-high on the scale, but not truly high. And the actual point was about contiguousness of upgrade opportunities and the relative mid-point concentration, not 'gee there is a kaoms'... ?!

You can do the same research on any weapon base and get the same results, almost irrespective of the number of uniques in that base. In fact, I'd really encourage you to do the research yourself because science is good and to be honest, probably something you need more of in your life ;)

So your complaint is that you can't have a higher then 500DPS weapon without buying it from someone else?

Kaoms is high for a new player, they don't need lol the highest DPS weapon, if they want an ultra high level weapon, it should as always come with a significant cost.

Crafting in PoE has never been for the poor man and I suspect it won't ever be.

Please explain your agenda as this whole implied agenda just makes it seem like you want anyone and everyone to be able to craft high tier weapons without worry about cost....

Weapons like binos, hege staff, kaoms, ect all provide less theoretical dps then a great crafted rare, but they are significantly more common and used in the period before a player can possibly acquire high end gear. "high dps" weapons were never intended for the casual player to get, let alone make themselves, please explain why you think that should be different.

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goetzjam wrote:

"

kreca74 wrote:

tnx for replies and feedback.
yes, it could also be a matter of itemization and masters do help but i find the later to be rather limited.
with me talking mostly about things up to and around lvl ~+60ish (Docks merc farming ready):
- you are limited by the number of masters that you can use/have in your hideout at a time (not to mention are you are almost forced to have a Vorici/Elreon just for their orb deals)
- you level faster than your masters do so their master-crafts are of little/limited use while leveling
- the cost of a master-craft is rather expensive. a lvl30ish craft would cost around 3-4 alchs. by the time i hit 60 with my first char in torment, i had less then 2 stacks of alchs (~15 - 17) so master-crafting 3-4 items kinda hurts.
(note: when i got my first master to lvl 8 and saw that a multicraft is 2EX i loled and said ... yea, that's never going to happen)

at one point, i was thinking even at some kind of reimbursement for crafts, via orbs or master options in which one would get some of the craft cost back; penalties depending on the type of currency used or something.
Ex: use 187 fused for a 5link, use the item, but when you're done with it, go to a master(or use an orb) and get, lets say, 10%-25% of the cost back.
i realized that it would totally mess some market prices and had no idea if it could be implemented, but you know, brainstorming doesn't hurt. :)

poe is a good game but i feel there is just to much stuff made pointless in it.

Yes you are limited to the amount of masters you can have and yes the first character in the league suffers because you don't start with leveled masters, but if you complete the quest as you level up you should have some useable mods.

You can craft using vendor recipies listed here:

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vendor_recipes

Scroll down 3/4 the way and you can see you can use recipes to craft weapons for phys, plus 1 (fire\cold\lightning), ect. While this isn't ultimate endgame crafting it is MUCH cheaper then using alchs\chaos to craft leveling weapons.

Multicraft was an interesting idea from GGG, unfortunately it was exploited with its cheap cost and got changed to be relatively cost inefficient to use, especially for solo (newer) players. Its a downside of the system, but really isn't necessary, you can typically buy weapons for less then it would have costed you to craft.

I believe GGG wants to do something about transferring links to another item, I think it should be limited to rare>rare, but not sure what they will do. People don't invest into linking lower level items because they know they will replace it with X piece or Y piece later. So they either A) buy a cheap 5 link, b) use tabula or c) just use a 4 link.

I don't think PoE has that many pointless things in it, could you explain what exactly you think is pointless?

by pointless i meant game features/options that no one really does or no one really uses.
that includes but is not limited to skills (why would one not level with flameblast?), uniques, builds(ranged-ranged-ranged because...it's win, has to be atziri viable, has to be a mf farmer, then maybe drop a melee char), always skipping certain map bosses(orchard one; if everyone is skipping it, it's like it doesn't even exist), skipping certain mob mods because rip and so on.
everything going on in the game looks to be a preparation for a distant and uncertain future and everyone is telling you that's ok, that's what you should do, just hang in there until ...
the present, the now, the moment you're actually playing the game doesn't even matter (unless, in my opinion, you shun everyone out and go self-xyz).
i want to enjoy the ride more and not just feel empty at the end of it.