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People saying the possible change to CWDT and EC + CI is risky are a bunch of idiots. The fact that there is horrid spike damage that even characters with 70-90% DR cant shake is what the problem is. Don't cry about these set ups being taken away and maybe start crying about mob balance or defense increases vs spike damage. Personally itll be a fun day in hell when we don't need the RRRR on gear, especially awful for ES based chars.
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I dont want to speak for GGG or Grepman, but I believe the point of the changes are to make more meaningful choices. There are other ways to get End Charges besides that 1 skill. You have 8 buttons to use, 3 mouse buttons and 1-5. I've never had a problem fitting everything in (you are also assuming every build uses blood rage and vaal Discipline). If you needed to have your auras on a key for it to work, I can understand the complaint, but you don't.
With the type of game PoE is, they want you to make meaningful choices. The fact that EVERY build uses CDWT-EC-IC-ID, tells GGG there is a problem. This is the same response when every build used HoL for autocursing. They changed the CoH trigger gem.
Even burning 2 keys for EC and IC, there should be plenty of room for other skills and utility. You are also wasting your left mouse button for move only. I personally like to use left mouse for single target (Hold shift to not move), and right mouse for AoE.
This is a much needed change and makes us think of gear and gem combo choices even more closely. Meta is going to change. We also don't know of any other new uniques which will be released with 1.4. Maybe some of them will help with charges. Let's see the entire picture before we harp on one change.
well said. you can speak for me ;)
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Posted bygrepmanon Feb 17, 2015, 6:44:28 PM
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I've never had a problem fitting everything in (you are also assuming every build uses blood rage and vaal Discipline). If you needed to have your auras on a key for it to work, I can understand the complaint, but you don't.
As someone who regularly stacks auras/Herald gems, uses AA, and likes to have Vaal Grace/Haste when possible, it is going to be obnoxious to always swap skills around when you log on, not to mention just obnoxious in general if we can't auto cast EC but it's still needed for most builds. Maybe it won't be needed as of 1.4 with some sweeping changes, but right now it sorely is. And maybe GGG could give us an extra slot or two to place skills in at the bottom right of the screen.
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The fact that EVERY build uses CDWT-EC-IC-ID, tells GGG there is a problem. This is the same response when every build used HoL for autocursing.
There is definitely a problem, and it's that we don't have adequate ways to deal with physical damage without endurance charges (I don't actually find IC necessary) or uniques (Lightning Coil). Right now, even with decent armour and a lvl 23 Arctic Armour on a ranged character, I still feel like I need EC to manage high level maps.
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We also don't know of any other new uniques which will be released with 1.4. Maybe some of them will help with charges.
I hope we don't have to rely on new uniques for dealing with damage after the changes. That would suck. Uniques should be for creating unique builds, not for being the only things that allow you to conquer all game content and feel good about it.
Dreamfeather Elemental Cleave Ranger: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1087616 Last edited by Tempada on Feb 17, 2015, 7:57:56 PM
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Posted byTempadaon Feb 17, 2015, 7:51:20 PM
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Gotta love how stable the metagame is in PoE.
LOL.
I hope everyone's ready to completely start over, not just in terms of character but in terms of build philosophy, ideas of 'good' items and the usual BS of 'relearning' skills.
The trigger gems were a mistake to begin with.
It'll be interesting to see what mistakes they make this time around.
This is explicitly a pushback against trigger gems, especially if they go for the new tag approach. It also attempts to rectify melee problems by giving them buffs/debuffs that synergize with melee-range combat. What exactly is your criticism here?
Buffs and debuffs that you have to cast every few seconds while surrounded by enemies in melee combat? No thanks.
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Posted byAscendicon Feb 17, 2015, 8:53:09 PM
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Fooling around in standard a bit atm and it seems IC doesn't counter devourers initial hit if you pop it just after they spawn but before the hit. Wonder how the die hard supporters of manual casting see that mechanic fitting in to their world view...
In game contact @MajorAsshole
Challenge T-Shirt: 4/6 | Full Challenge Totems: 21/27
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Posted byRedbladeon Feb 17, 2015, 9:02:23 PM
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Wait, so people might actually have to invest in defensive measures outside of health and a cheesy combo? I look at builds, and I see "good amount of armor" and its a paltry 95% - 120% increase.
Forcing people to think, for shame.
On top of which, they show a prototype of the design process. Something that may or not make the grade and there is a bunch of such ideas in the pipeline. Why are people complaining about this?
These changes are going to be a breath of fresh air. Its about time people have to second guess themselves in this game.
The problem is forcing people to invest more skill points into defense serves no purpose other than killing build diversity. You need far too much invested in damage nodes in order to not be useless end game and the rest of the points HAVE to be invested into health why? Because of the bullshit ridiculous spike damage rampant in the game and armour being useless vs massive hits and evasion being useless when it doesn't evade. All the defense currently available boils down to have a small amount of mitigation but the largest possible health pool because that is the only way to mitigate the obscene damage coming from some of these mobs.
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Posted byAscendicon Feb 17, 2015, 9:08:23 PM
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at least we can all agree that armour is a waste of points
granites are a wasted potion slot
resists, vaal pact and immortal call
will removing EC from the 4 link even change that?
Let the games begin
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Posted bywhinestonon Feb 17, 2015, 11:07:57 PM
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Wait, so people might actually have to invest in defensive measures outside of health and a cheesy combo? I look at builds, and I see "good amount of armor" and its a paltry 95% - 120% increase.
Forcing people to think, for shame.
On top of which, they show a prototype of the design process. Something that may or not make the grade and there is a bunch of such ideas in the pipeline. Why are people complaining about this?
These changes are going to be a breath of fresh air. Its about time people have to second guess themselves in this game.
The problem is forcing people to invest more skill points into defense serves no purpose other than killing build diversity. You need far too much invested in damage nodes in order to not be useless end game and the rest of the points HAVE to be invested into health why? Because of the bullshit ridiculous spike damage rampant in the game and armour being useless vs massive hits and evasion being useless when it doesn't evade. All the defense currently available boils down to have a small amount of mitigation but the largest possible health pool because that is the only way to mitigate the obscene damage coming from some of these mobs.
So cookie cutter glass cannon builds that rely on a cheese mechanic is build diversity, but having a bunch of different builds that use and actually invest in different defensive mechanics is not?
If they are looking at revamping armor, what makes you think they have not looked at health nodes and spike damage again? They have been messing with the balance of that since before OB. Do you understand what evasion is? Its an offensive form of defense. You have a couple shots to get the kill before they hit you. You can't rely on it to tank like armor can unless you stack it (250%+). Then on top of evasion you have dodge. Most of armors problem is that people tend to think that 100% off the tree is enough. Then complain that they died with their 9k armor while being "heavily invested".
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right!" Henry Ford
Last edited by Jackel6672 on Feb 17, 2015, 11:22:35 PM
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Posted byJackel6672on Feb 17, 2015, 11:21:19 PM
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Fooling around in standard a bit atm and it seems IC doesn't counter devourers initial hit if you pop it just after they spawn but before the hit. Wonder how the die hard supporters of manual casting see that mechanic fitting in to their world view...
the mechanic is exactly the same for cwdt+ec+ic as it is for manual casting
so, I fail to see your point. especially since you'll still be able to automate IC.
manual casting usually involves you investing into something- it means passives and gear. if you manually cast ECs, that usually means you invest in their duration/+1 EC passives
there is nothing to invest or sacrifice to get a cwdt+ec+ic setup. you get gems, 4R sockets (3R if you dont have chromes to include ID) and there it is- mandatory, automated phys reflect shield AND oh shit physical immunity
the ease, accessibility and automation aspect of the CWDT+EC+IC(+ID) setup is why its popular.
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Posted bygrepmanon Feb 17, 2015, 11:36:34 PM
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Wait, so people might actually have to invest in defensive measures outside of health and a cheesy combo? I look at builds, and I see "good amount of armor" and its a paltry 95% - 120% increase.
Forcing people to think, for shame.
On top of which, they show a prototype of the design process. Something that may or not make the grade and there is a bunch of such ideas in the pipeline. Why are people complaining about this?
These changes are going to be a breath of fresh air. Its about time people have to second guess themselves in this game.
The problem is forcing people to invest more skill points into defense serves no purpose other than killing build diversity. You need far too much invested in damage nodes in order to not be useless end game and the rest of the points HAVE to be invested into health why? Because of the bullshit ridiculous spike damage rampant in the game and armour being useless vs massive hits and evasion being useless when it doesn't evade. All the defense currently available boils down to have a small amount of mitigation but the largest possible health pool because that is the only way to mitigate the obscene damage coming from some of these mobs.
forcing people to actually invest in defenses is now restricting builds ?
surely, someone who has been around since closed beta, you remember that poe started as a defense-heavy game. the type of raw and easy dps that one can achieve now, was not there in beginning open beta.
defense was, and is still a strong part of poe, and should remain so. it shouldnt be a fucking checkmark that one can just check off with as least investment as possible.
Last edited by grepman on Feb 17, 2015, 11:42:21 PM
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Posted bygrepmanon Feb 17, 2015, 11:41:56 PM
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I don't like the current meta of CwDT+EC+IC at all, but if this change is going to go through (which I hope will), then something needs to happen about those spike damage mobs. CwDT was added right along with devourers and jumping frogs, so can we expect a nerf to devourers and frogs now that you're nerfing the only realistic way to prevent their spike damage?
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Posted byOwlerton Feb 17, 2015, 11:49:00 PM
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