Stringing on the Kickstarter customer, or Why this game needs to die

"

CanHasPants wrote:

In re: bolded: trading is an inherently competitive act; your PvE loot is economy; loot is derived from clear efficiency; your PvE performance is competition. (clarification: whether you (vague) acknowledge it or not)

PoE's economy is based on minimizing competition by making trade as obtuse as possible, though it seeks efficiency through third parties. I'd say the lack of a trade platform is just another failure of providing a place for competition, unless that competition is 'Who can spam trade channel longest'.

"

b15h09 wrote:

"

pneuma wrote:

Is that still the case? Who fucking knows if GGG isn't talking. We need them here, and yet 30+ pages later, silence still.

Pffft. Does this look like reddit or something? This forum is a courtesy for the players, a place for them to get their items indexed, to let of some steam, and a place to post patch notes. This is NOT a place for dev interaction, and hasn't been for a long time.

Another great example of an inexplicable change that they've made since CB.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Mid-league balance is going to happen.

Unless they start with new leagues a week or two after the patch, that could be enough time to fix the most glaring issues and for players to test out new stuff.

True, it might be bad from publicity standpoint, you want to make one, big, splashy event.

Just read the OP. I don't visit much since I stopped playing PoE a couple months ago (after 2.5 years).
So yeah, very well written Scrottie, pretty much spot on.

For me, the last temp league just killed it. I'm not sure if it was all the focus on PvP, or that it felt like I had done it all before (several times) or that every little desync made me want to punch my screen... I just couldn't take it anymore, it made me sick to my stomach just to start the client.

I'll be back for act 4 at least for a bit because I have to see it. But I doubt I'll be grinding for very long. The engine just sucks and there are too many core gameplay issues (other than desync) that have never been addressed, and well, enough is enough.

"

b15h09 wrote:

"

CanHasPants wrote:

In re: bolded: trading is an inherently competitive act; your PvE loot is economy; loot is derived from clear efficiency; your PvE performance is competition. (clarification: whether you (vague) acknowledge it or not)

PoE's economy is based on minimizing competition by making trade as obtuse as possible, though it seeks efficiency through third parties. I'd say the lack of a trade platform is just another failure of providing a place for competition, unless that competition is 'Who can spam trade channel longest'.

What you're missing is that PvE is economy, regardless of trading, and economy is competitive.

Trading is the most apparent component to economic competition, but balance and build availability/scarcity are components just the same. To find fault in balancing around competition (what I am replying to) is to find fault with balance at all.

Beyond that, your premises are wrong, and your conclusions are backwards. We have a trade system; you don't like it so you describe it as such, but we have it nonetheless. That our trade system requires you to actively find a compatible buyer/seller makes it degrees more competitive.

"

pneuma wrote:

"

b15h09 wrote:

"

pneuma wrote:

Is that still the case? Who fucking knows if GGG isn't talking. We need them here, and yet 30+ pages later, silence still.

Pffft. Does this look like reddit or something? This forum is a courtesy for the players, a place for them to get their items indexed, to let of some steam, and a place to post patch notes. This is NOT a place for dev interaction, and hasn't been for a long time.

Another great example of an inexplicable change that they've made since CB.

Can you blame them, really? After the open beta gates opened, there is a much larger audience, and now every soapbox preacher on this forum waits with bated breath for a Gold poster to lay out the gospel for them to then twist into their own interpretation to spread their vision for the future of PoE.

I feel like PoE is becoming a freaking religion, with it's fanatics, it's crusaders, it's athiests, and it's preachers...

"

CanHasPants wrote:

"

b15h09 wrote:

"

CanHasPants wrote:

In re: bolded: trading is an inherently competitive act; your PvE loot is economy; loot is derived from clear efficiency; your PvE performance is competition. (clarification: whether you (vague) acknowledge it or not)

PoE's economy is based on minimizing competition by making trade as obtuse as possible, though it seeks efficiency through third parties. I'd say the lack of a trade platform is just another failure of providing a place for competition, unless that competition is 'Who can spam trade channel longest'.

What you're missing is that PvE is economy, regardless of trading, and economy is competitive.

Trading is the most apparent component to economic competition, but balance and build availability/scarcity are components just the same. To find fault in balancing around competition (what I am replying to) is to find fault with balance at all.

Beyond that, your premises are wrong, and your conclusions are backwards. We have a trade system; you don't like it so you describe it as such, but we have it nonetheless. That our trade system requires you to actively find a compatible buyer/seller makes it degrees more competitive.

I say that trade is competitive because GGG let's items be transferred between players, but not as competitive as it would be with a system to facilitate trade properly. The competition would be much greater if you didn't only have to compete against those who are online. And without poe.trade, there would really be no competition at all. Only dumb luck in finding someone who happens to read your spam who needs the item you have and will purchase it at the price you ask. Prices would drop dramatically with a trade system, and that price drop is the very essence of economic competition. Markets seek efficiency. That's why the market exists outside of the game.

Also, PvE isn't economy. I PvE a fair bit, but I don't trade much. PvE is... the game.

I'll say it again CanHas - a game with competitive aspects is not necessarily a competitive game. Evolve is intrinsically competitive because you can't play the game without fighting another player to win. PoE is *not* intrinsically competitive because there is the option to not compete with anyone for anything.

So while GGG may tune everything in the game around an expectation of people competing, it's not remotely surprising that there's a reasonable population of people who don't generally compete and who have, surprise, views on the game.

Of course, there is the obligatory need to comment on the drive to make something intrinsic to the game (trade) without actually building in good tools for it. Consider that topic covered ;)

Edit: If my Evolve comparison is off-base forgive me; I haven't played it yet and don't know if it can be played single player. Still, the point is fairly clear hopefully.

PvE is competitive. That's why it has a fucking v in it.

Or at least it should be. If all monsters are to you is loot piñatas then maybe they're on your team.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

PvE is competitive. That's why it has a fucking v in it.

Or at least it should be. If all monsters are to you is loot piñatas then maybe they're on your team.

All these years, I didn't know my childhood love of Final Fantasy was really a deeply seeded thirst for competition... oh wait.

Don't get me wrong, I get ya. Theorycrafting itself is simply competing against the system, trying to 'beat' it. I just don't think that counts in the context of a competitive game. It really needs 2 or more parties.