WTF is wrong with ming's heart?

So I've decided to make crit chaos EK build and I just finally equipped ming's heart. Here is what i get:

- a lvl16 added chaos (104-157) privides me 271-410 of chaos damage in spell tooltip
- ming's heart provides 20% of my phys, and it gives me only 155-232 of chaos damage in spell tooltip.

Can somone please explain me mechanics behind this and why chaos dmg from ming's heart doesn't scale with anything apparently, but chaos dmg from added chaos is being nearly tripled from what gem gives.

So yeah equipping Ming's heart gives me 1k dps boost, while equiping added chaos (which still is only lvl16) gives 2k dps increase.

In translation - Ming's heart is absolute garbage considering it reduces maximum life, and gives almost no dps boost in the end. And no one gives a fuck about chaos resist it provides.

Lvl 16 EK gives 211–316 -> 250 on avg.
Lvl 16 added chaos 104–157 -> 125 on avg.

20% of 250 avg. is -> 50 on avg.
That quite explains it.

It also depends on support gems - e.g. PPaD lvl 16 - 45% more phys dmg. With mings it's not 1.45 * 1.2 modifier, but (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) modifier only (it adds together). Therefore it very depends on support gems used and dmg increases taken from passive tree.

Furthermore use of e.g. hatred lowers the dmg gain even more as it adds to total DPS in other element!

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walentaz wrote:

In translation - Ming's heart is absolute garbage considering it reduces maximum life, and gives almost no dps boost in the end. And no one gives a fuck about chaos resist it provides.

It reduces life AND energy shield. The damage gain can feel decent for non-crit builds, but yeah, the ring generally sucks. That kind of chaos resist is rarely worth the huge downsides plus a little bit of dps.

So basically a generic rare crit ring with life and resists will do more, and then I can even equip doryani's invitation for even more sustain.

Oh well, 1ex wasted (luckily it's that cheap atm in torment) I doubt I can resell it even for 2/3 EX, guess I was only one naive to try put something out of it.

And EK sucks in general compered to popular builds. Hard to scale non-crit, for crit it has very low base crit, so in the end damage in inconsistent with mediocre crit chance. Viable but not as efficient as other builds.

also, PPAD doesnt work with EK, its a spell

double post sory

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walentaz wrote:

And EK sucks in general compered to popular builds. Hard to scale non-crit, for crit it has very low base crit, so in the end damage in inconsistent with mediocre crit chance. Viable but not as efficient as other builds.

I would agree that crit EK is not very good in comparison to other crit builds, but non-crit EK is solid, not for the damage (although the damage is decent and I find it easy to scale since you have WAY more options than any other spell), but for the well-rounded nature of the build. With non-crit EK you can get over 20k dps while running Arctic Armour, Phase Acrobatics (yes, even with the energy shield nerf), and Cloak of Defiance all at the same time if you want. That's a lot of defense.

mings is not that great ya.


adding damage to ek is bad too in my opinion, thats why you were left feeling

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walentaz wrote:

EK sucks in general compered to popular builds. Hard to scale non-crit, for crit it has very low base crit, so in the end damage in inconsistent with mediocre crit chance. Viable but not as efficient as other builds.

ek has no damage effectiveness so you get the full benefit of adding flat damage to it like chaos, you know what it has no damage eff? Because its not good for adding damage to like that. Think physical 2 hander. When you start with relatively slow pure physical damage you can scale it far better by scaling the phys then scaling elemental from the phys with added fire and hatred.

Spectral throw has 57% damage effectiveness at lvl20? heavy strike has 150% damage effectiveness, so which one is better for adding flat elemental damage to? Damage effectiveness is there to try to reduce the gap between skills that are insane for adding flat damage to with ones that are bad for it.

The way I would scale ek is with gem level, cast speed, proj/spell/physical increased %, crit, added fire and hatred, imo. Those all work together, are efficient and scale each other properly at all stages. People say its hard to scale ek, but you can scale it better than most spells because its physical and hence with added fire and hatred you get 75% "more" damage as elemental at some stage. People need to look at physical attacks vs elemental attacks, the way those builds are scaled differently. Mings works as a %, but 20% is too low to invest anything significant in it imo, its not efficient.

I used my mings as a skin, from what I can tell thats still the best use for it atm. I hope they rethink its life reduction in light of the new life mechanics, same with carnage heart theyre too harsh.





re consistency with crit ek

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Tempada wrote:

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walentaz wrote:

And EK sucks in general compered to popular builds. Hard to scale non-crit, for crit it has very low base crit, so in the end damage in inconsistent with mediocre crit chance. Viable but not as efficient as other builds.

I would agree that crit EK is not very good in comparison to other crit builds, but non-crit EK is solid, not for the damage (although the damage is decent and I find it easy to scale since you have WAY more options than any other spell), but for the well-rounded nature of the build. With non-crit EK you can get over 20k dps while running Arctic Armour, Phase Acrobatics (yes, even with the energy shield nerf), and Cloak of Defiance all at the same time if you want. That's a lot of defense.

amount of money needed to get 20k tooltip on non crit EK equals to a build with same defenses and 5 times more dps

skill needs bufs, without any doubt