Kickstarter Campaign for PoE's Optional Self Found League!

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whitelytning wrote:

It is not an opinion. It is a fact. If you, or I, wanted to play SF we could. There is nothing forcing us to trade.

Except the game itself. I'm playing the game the way that it was designed. My argument is for a league designed for self found. So your statement to play it the way it is now is ludicrous.

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whitelytning wrote:

This is a dumb thread and the whole idea of forcing self found on people is bad for everyone involved. Stop telling other people how to play a game. If you want to play self-found do it. Nothing is stopping you. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

Have you even tried reading the thread? For crying out loud the title is "Optional self found league". Where did you get the idea that this would be forced on anyone or telling people how to play the game? WTF?

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iamstryker wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

In other words, you're just affirming what I've already been saying. SFL requests are just QQ about droprate.

Not what I said at all but I'm not surprised since you don't seem to be trying to listen to anyone else.

p.s. another way your wrong is the people who simply want a league without the extra drop rates.

The people who want a league without the extra drop rates typically just want a self-found ladder, which IMO doesn't require or necessitate (or even benefit from) a self-found league.

Also, I think you are failing at basic logic. Let me help you out:

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iamstryker wrote:

The game specifically pushes you to trade, that's the way that it was designed. So telling people to play self found in a game designed for trading isn't exactly fair now is it?

OK, so you want the game to be more fair, since it's designed around trading and self found players don't trade. And you admit freely that:

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"designed for trading" is a just a veiled way of saying "has crappy droprates"

So let me help you out. A and B are the two premises which you have given:

A: Playing self-found isn't fair because the league is designed for trading
B: Being designed for trading means the droprates are too low

Can you see what the logical conclusion is? It's C: Create SFL with increased droprates

Hence, all this SFL crying is really just crying about droprates. It's been going on for years, and it's the simplest and purest form of QQ that an ARPG can have: droprate QQ.

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Prisus wrote:

I think a self-found league with the same exact drop rates but a bandwidth of drops by level would be nice. That way as you level you have a higher chance at getting a "useful unique" as opposed to ones that are primarily used for leveling.

i.e. if you are level 70, you have a *higher* chance of getting Uniques that have item levels are greater than or equal to 70-X (20 levels?).

Im not sure thats going to have the intended outcome.
Um, so if I want Windripper (ilvl66) I could/should suicide my toon to stop him levelling to 87?
What does that say about HC Self Found? Oops I overlevelled and cant get XX anymore?
Isnt non-zero probability better than zero?

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I don't know if you need to just buff drop rates accross the board...but changing the range on the drops would go a long way in to uniques "feeling useful".

As far as SFL being a method to ask for buffed dropped rates. That's seems to be very caged thinking. If drop rates and trading annoyed most of these guys...I'm sure they would be gone long time ago.

Drop rates are fine. I Self Found (Character) my way to an atziri kill last league. Masters are working perfectly for this.

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There is something to be said about the feeling you get when you FIND all of your own stuff and use it. It's a different experience. It feels different...the decisions in leveling are different...priorities in gearing are different. It literally changes the game completely.

Found an awesome belt? Damn it...i'm short 40 str...can't use it. Well I don't have any gear that would help me...and I can't trade for it...sooooo...

I think a lot of people are afraid of SFL because it's relatively easy to get to a working build with trade. Trying to get a working build without trade is a serious challenge and would really show how knowledgeable players can navigate the skill tree to gain an advantage over trading for a piece of gear.

You are right about the feeling of achievement.
However, the rest is true IFF you have Self Found (Character) and not Self Found (Player)
Im currently levelling a character and befoer starting I already had every gem and unique I was going to need for both the levelling process and the finished build from previous character drops.

I said before, and will say again, that the SFL people need to promote this on an ultra-hardcore footing, making the game more difficult than it would otherwise be. Every SFL post that amounts to 'increase drop rates' or 'plz make game ez 4 me' just makes the idea less and less likely to come about.

B.

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tackle70 wrote:

Hence, all this SFL crying is really just crying about droprates. It's been going on for years, and it's the simplest and purest form of QQ that an ARPG can have: droprate QQ.

So why aren't you separating the two very different ideas of A) Just buffing drop rates vs. B) Buffing drop rates AND removing trading?

All you keep saying is QQ you all want more drops but your ignoring that those people also want trading removed. They aren't at all the same thing. One just makes the game a lot easier while the other most likely makes the game harder in many ways.

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tackle70 wrote:

Hence, all this SFL crying is really just crying about droprates. It's been going on for years, and it's the simplest and purest form of QQ that an ARPG can have: droprate QQ.

You already aknowledged that it wasn't the only reason people want a SFL:

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tackle70 wrote:

The people who want a league without the extra drop rates typically just want a self-found ladder

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bredin wrote:

I said before, and will say again, that the SFL people need to promote this on an ultra-hardcore footing, making the game more difficult than it would otherwise be. Every SFL post that amounts to 'increase drop rates' or 'plz make game ez 4 me' just makes the idea less and less likely to come about.

B.

Wouldn't

"keep everything like it is and remove trading" amount to exactly that?

The only thing i would opt for is a way to keep the passive tree and items stable for a year at a time.

Like delayed patches after one year on the SFL realm. To create a sense of longevity which is sort of a requirement for SFL i think.(considering you don't just press fast-forward at every point)

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DirkAustin wrote:

Oh dear. Selling accounts wouldnt become a thing though would it? Oh wait, it would! Bots farm orbs and items and then the account gets sold. There, no pretty "clean" ladder for SFL players. We can make accounts by the dozen, do you think RMTers would not jump at the opportunity to mess with another league in this game?

This cant be about a ladder as a ladder would never be fair because of those who would RMT just to get the top spot. People love their bragging rights, you know?

Thx for bringing this to my attention, this is indeed a fair point.

But even then, you must acknowledge that in a hc setting the effect of this issue would be greatly reduced?
Bot's would eventually die and you would buy what exactly? An account with a single item worth almost nothing.(since there is no economic presence the item has inherent value of its core stats, but nothing else)

In a hardcore setting i don't think this would be extremely profitable. Given the choice i think they would rather reside in an economy driven ladder where market manipulation is a viable means to gain wealth.

Peace,

-Boem-

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grant_m wrote:

@ Bagman.

You raised a concern that people who'd participate in a SFL or ladder or whatever, would not support PoE monetarily. That 'traders' are somehow more likely than non-traders to support GGG.

You're incorrect in that line of thinking.

Reading Petrov's opening post should have been enough to assure you of this.

I must have mis-communicated my point, then. I would imagine people are as likely to support GGG, regardless of their league. Rather, my point is that people in a SFL are more likely to quit playing altogether, and thus will make no further purchases.