Melee is the worst bullshit ever in poe

"Pure" close range melee Skills( FYI: spectral throw or lightning strike or other similar skills are semi ranged skills) getting an exra Mod which applies xx%-xx% global damage mitigation to the char. Of course a another socketed ranged skill would automatically disable the mod with the damage mitigation since it could be easily misused. Or the migitation mod is only active if the close range melee skill is in use, indicated for example by rotating shields.

So you don't even have to touch the skill tree or the classes to solve this issue.


That's actually the only logical solution to keep the things balanced.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

More importantly, the fact you found a build that works doesn't indicate anything, because anything will work with a billion exalts worth of gear.

the fact that I have many melee characters that work well ranging from 5 chaos worth of gear to 500 exalts worth and I have not made a melee character that didnt work since early open beta says everything needed to be said about this discussion. Thats not what I 'think', thats a fact, unlike everything you are basing your statements on.

You mean like the fact there aren't any duelists at the top of bloodlines? Rofl. Your "facts" are anecdote and opinion, the real facts are the ladder rankings.

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Peterlerock wrote:

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Gemdraco wrote:

I see a lot of guys hit 90-93 and then stop progressing because they can't survive end game maps long enough to level further.

I personally stop levelling not because of survival issues, but because I get bored. I want to try something new, I want to reroll something else.
Once I'm hitting ~lvl 90, I have to invest too much to progress any further. I don't want to spend muliple exalts for every gearslot, so item upgrades are not available. And I don't want to play the same two maps over and over, so levels take too long. Once a build works and proved his worth in all endgame maps, I drop it and start another.

You seem to enjoy the xp grind from 90 to 100, I don't.
But that's all that is to it: repeat playing the same maps over and over.
That's not an achievement, it's just time-consuming.

You contradicted yourself here. You claim your character(s) is/are capable of doing all end game maps but you also concede that you would have to spend more money (exalted orbs) to get better gear for the process of making it past where you are. Ultimately, I'll tell you right now, you would die mapping with me. In other words, you have not proven yourself capable of conquering all end game maps. Also, there are more than only two of them to do. Your opinions concerning the state of melee do not stand against the real end game.

As for enjoying the grind, I really don't. However, I am driven to finish what I start. I continue to play this game for two reasons: I have a handful of guys I made a promise to and I won't feel a sense of completion until I achieve level 100. You say this is just playing the same maps over and over again and that it's not an achievement. However, this is what the game is after you finish the quest portion of the game no matter what your level is. And if you only play the quest portion of the game, the same thing applies. So according to your logic, it's all time-consuming and none of it is any kind of achievement. Well, if we're comparing any of this to real life achievements, then it's true: nothing in this game is an achievement and it's all a waste of time. However, as game achievements stand, getting level 100 IS an achievement, and I respect the opinions of any player who can achieve this because it takes the right build, skill and gear to get there. And the combination of the right build and skill indicates a player with a true understanding of the state of the game.

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goetzjam wrote:

I am not competing on the ladder nor do I care or use it soley as my know all data when trying to present facts, you are so high up on your petisole when you haven't been anywhere near the top of the ladder to honestly complain about it. Get top 20 and come back and talk, otherwise don't use the ladder as your excuse.

You don't have to be ON the ladder (which I am anyways) to look at it and see duelists missing from the top; there aren't any there.
Also rofl @ get to top 20, right back at you guy. I play melee and I have a job.

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goetzjam wrote:

Desync is almost always the players fault

Well by that standard, being melee is always the players fault since melee are the ones who suffer from desync the most. Maybe we should just not use whirling blades anymore, ever. Valid point there sir. You aren't helping your case here though by saying don't use melee skills.

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goetzjam wrote:

As for relevant can we not pull information from scion, ranger and maruarder when discussing melee, IMO all those other classes have a better start for melee builds, so just because one class is now under preforming because of the tree changes, doesn't mean that all melee is suffering.

The other classes have something else they do, totems, bow, caster. Duelist is the only class who is optimized almost solely for melee which is why duelist is your goto for melee stats. You might be able to squeeze a bow or totem build out of duelist but it'd be far less optimized than another class at that point.

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BestUsernameEver wrote:

"Pure" close range melee Skills( FYI: spectral throw or lightning strike or other similar skills are semi ranged skills) getting an exra Mod which applies xx%-xx% global damage mitigation to the char. Of course a another socketed ranged skill would automatically disable the mod with the damage mitigation since it could be easily misused. Or the migitation mod is only active if the close range melee skill is in use, indicated for example by rotating shields.

So you don't even have to touch the skill tree or the classes to solve this issue.


That's actually the only logical solution to keep the things balanced.

This is kind of what has to happen since ST exists, but implementation of this is tricky. They have to make it so that ranged characters don't get the bonuses simply by having the gem equipped. This is why I said in the counter-gem thread that those gems should have mitigation built in, based on the amount of damage you dealt during the counter.

Problem is, that doesn't really fix melee since it won't protect against the initial hit. Anything that protects against the initial hit will helped ranged also. So we're either not doing enough, helping ranged, or back at square 1 with these ideas. The counter gems are inherently flawed.

I'm sure there is a solution that won't help ranged and won't leave melee vulnerable to first-hit instagibs, but I haven't seen one mentioned yet. The counter gems are helpful, I've been trying them out with some defense combos, but they simply don't do enough for survivability. I'm running Vengeance-LGoH-endurance charge on melee stun-PCoC right now, it helps, but I feel like the build wouldn't be much different without it.

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You don't have to be ON the ladder (which I am anyways) to look at it and see duelists missing from the top; there aren't any there.
Also rofl @ get to top 20, how about you get past level 9.

Got to level 21 brah, I only have tethered 4g connection available to me now, perhaps that is why I don't play in a HC league. You play on 4g connection and tell me to level some more.

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Well by that standard, being melee is always the players fault since melee are the ones who suffer from desync the most. Maybe we should just not use whirling blades anymore, ever. Valid point there sir. You aren't helping your case here though by saying don't use melee skills.

Maybe and this is just me, you use /oos macro if you think you are desyning. Not saying don't use melee skills, saying be prepared for what happens when you use any movement skills.

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The other classes have something else they do, totems, bow, caster. Duelist is the only class who is optimized almost solely for melee which is why duelist is your goto for melee stats. You might be able to squeeze a bow or totem build out of duelist but it'd be far less optimized than another class at that point.

So you want us to use your very specific guidelines in order to judge melee as a whole? Are you serious right now?

Show me a build with the new tree that favors melee and favors duelist, you probably won't find it. Both marauder and ranger have better starting areas and easier access to GTFO out after the good starting areas.

certain builds or play styles will always cost more or require more skill to play than others. That doesnt make them inferior, it maybe makes them a bad choice if you are a poor/unskilled player, sure. If this thread is "QQ Im a poor/unskilled player and that makes melee a bad choice for me" ok, fair play. Low Life is also a bad choice for you, cast on crit is a bad choice for you, theres lots of stuff thats not a good choice for you, melee happens to be one of them.

Low life is more rippy and more expensive than melee. Everyone I know with a shavs dies 10s upon 10s of times, on my ci melee I have died once that I can remember in over a year. The amount of HC shavs that end up on SC is pretty huge. Does that make it inferior? that it is more expensive and statistically more dangerous to play than alternatives? HvRs "HvCasual" marauder beastmoded the entire Invasion hardcore league as a melee cyclone while shavs characters were dying left and right. So ranged is a bit cheaper and easier than melee = ranged is superior, and melee is a bit cheaper and easier than low life so ranged is superior to melee and melee is superior to low life right? Right?

No, not right. They are different, some are harder, some are more expensive, some have more potential at low gear levels some have more potential at higher gear levels. Thats not a sign that anything is broken or wrong.

Its not that hard, I play self found melee builds in hardcore challenge leagues, I have yet to die once doing it. Im not even a good player, Im competent at best. You can start a melee build with nothing on a fresh server and level into the 80s without any trouble or trading and its fairly easy, if I can do it then for sure its fairly easy. So when we say it costs more and takes more skill to play melee its not like it takes a lot of skill and costs a lot of orbs. Its easy and you can do it self found, that how not at all bad or worth crying about it is.

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pneuma wrote:

People who have played lots of melee and lots of ranged builds acknowledge that melee has severe disadvantages that ranged simply does not have. More effort and more skill need to go into melee to make it work. That doesn't mean melee is impossible, it means it sucks as a choice.

no, I dont agree. Its not severe, its fairly minor and fine as a choice for most people.

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pneuma wrote:

Far too much subjectivity going on

again dont agree, far too many people clinging to their opinions that are completely baseless. You need objective data to prove that melee sucks to people who have melee builds that dont suck and know from repeated personal experience that melee is fine? Ya I can see why none of you have managed to provide any of that so far. Ive provided you with melee builds that dont suck, /thread? Pretty much tbh.

How about you need to get your head out of the sand and accept that maybe you don't know everything there is to know about this game? People said evasion sucked, fire damage sucked, crit sucked, coil sucked, all manner of shit sucked, and they were all proven wrong over time. Many things went from 'being the worst shit ever' to 'being the most op shit ever' without ever changing. You do not know all there is to know about this game, I dont know all there is about this game. I know enough to know melee is fine and works across a wide range of builds. If this isnt something that has entered your awareness so far then fair play, but melee is fine, ggg are not going to fix what isnt broken and at some point you guys are going to have to get your fingers out of your ears and take it on board.

Or just keep crying here about nothing, I dunno why I even care to try and set you straight.

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Gemdraco wrote:

As for enjoying the grind, I really don't. However, I am driven to finish what I start. I continue to play this game for two reasons: I have a handful of guys I made a promise to and I won't feel a sense of completion until I achieve level 100. You say this is just playing the same maps over and over again and that it's not an achievement. However, this is what the game is after you finish the quest portion of the game no matter what your level is. And if you only play the quest portion of the game, the same thing applies. So according to your logic, it's all time-consuming and none of it is any kind of achievement. Well, if we're comparing any of this to real life achievements, then it's true: nothing in this game is an achievement and it's all a waste of time. However, as game achievements stand, getting level 100 IS an achievement, and I respect the opinions of any player who can achieve this because it takes the right build, skill and gear to get there. And the combination of the right build and skill indicates a player with a true understanding of the state of the game.

unhost got to lvl100 in hardcore with a melee build, his gear was pretty shit, BOR, Aegis, Soul Taker, fairly joke money gears in the bigger picture. You got a level 100 hardcore character? Because people with fairly average skills and average gear playing a melee build have done it.

I respect that you want to get to 100, of course its an achievement. But not everyone wants to grind to 100, its not a goal everyone has that most have failed at. Getting into the 90s is enough to prove the worth of a build, you need to have taken on deep endgame to get there. Peter is happy with leveling characters to around 90, for him thats enough and hes achieved what he set out to do. By that point he absolutely has good experience of his characters in the hardest endgame situations and can talk about those situations from a position of knowledge.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Gemdraco wrote:

As for enjoying the grind, I really don't. However, I am driven to finish what I start. I continue to play this game for two reasons: I have a handful of guys I made a promise to and I won't feel a sense of completion until I achieve level 100. You say this is just playing the same maps over and over again and that it's not an achievement. However, this is what the game is after you finish the quest portion of the game no matter what your level is. And if you only play the quest portion of the game, the same thing applies. So according to your logic, it's all time-consuming and none of it is any kind of achievement. Well, if we're comparing any of this to real life achievements, then it's true: nothing in this game is an achievement and it's all a waste of time. However, as game achievements stand, getting level 100 IS an achievement, and I respect the opinions of any player who can achieve this because it takes the right build, skill and gear to get there. And the combination of the right build and skill indicates a player with a true understanding of the state of the game.

unhost got to lvl100 in hardcore with a melee build, his gear was pretty shit, BOR, Aegis, Soul Taker, fairly joke money gears in the bigger picture. You got a level 100 hardcore character? Because people with fairly average skills and average gear playing a melee build have done it.

I respect that you want to get to 100, of course its an achievement. But not everyone wants to grind to 100, its not a goal everyone has that most have failed at. Getting into the 90s is enough to prove the worth of a build, you need to have taken on deep endgame to get there. Peter is happy with leveling characters to around 90, for him thats enough and hes achieved what he set out to do. By that point he absolutely has good experience of his characters in the hardest endgame situations and can talk about those situations from a position of knowledge.

Snork, I have read some of your posts in the past and I think you're reasonable and I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't agree with you on this point. If you choose to stop progressing at some or other level, it's important to know why. Is it because you don't want to do the grind or is it because you are dying/hitting a wall you can't get past due to a problem with your build/gear. I would hazard a guess that most players stop progressing after experiencing too much loss of xp from death (in a softcore league) or from having to start over too many times (in a hardcore league). There's nothing like backwards progression and an unrewarding experience to kill the fun of a game. Naming some guy who is an exception to the rule doesn't represent the overall state of anything.

I have already stated in a past post what has been nerfed over time in melee (in the name of "balance"). As they continue to nerf life (and now block) more and more, melee continues to lose its effectiveness to a point where it's not much fun to play anymore. However, as I have stated before, I love being the tank in the group so I will continue to choose it in spite of whatever nerfs they throw my way or whatever parts of my previous builds get dumpstered. I can't say my pleasure of playing melee outweighs my persistence at this point.

Ultimately, if your experience of the game is limited to some or other wall you failed to overcome at level 90 (or whatever level your progression stopped at), your opinions on what you are talking about may not hold as much water to me as the opinions of a player who has the experience of leveling a melee character into the high 90s (a level 100 player being someone with opinions that hold the most water since they overcame all obstacles with greater success than those lower than them). Hence I will respect opinions on melee (or anything else for that matter) when they are coming from a player who has achieved this degree of experience in spite of all changes because they adapted and overcame what GGG threw at them. At this point, the effectiveness of melee is suffering greatly in comparison to ranged DPS classes.

fair comments man, I agree, you got to respect experience. Theres people who cheese it of course, their only skill is trading and they just buy 78s all day, skip the bosses and grind a single char to extreme levels. Character level isnt everything when it comes to game knowledge but for sure it counts for an awful lot. Esp in this game where it is so easy to go wrong in so many ways and be completely clueless to it.

Ive done it loads, slept on mechanics and items for ages that I totally should have been getting in on right away until someone set me straight. Sometimes it goes the other way too tho, Ive learnt a fair bit watching streamers who in fairness dont have half the endgame experience I have. Hasn't stop them educating me on a great many things over time, I wouldnt want to take anything away from players like that, a lot of them know the game.