[1.3.0] Too Many Clones! -- PvE Templar Archer Summoner

So, one of the biggest problems I'm running into is getting good firing lines against mob piles. Spawning the minions into the middle of the pack (via enemies stepping on traps) tends to make all the clones shoot "outward" from the pack in an uncoordinated way with no overlap.

There are a few solutions that I'm currently iterating on:
- Point Blank, as mentioned before. If I get a Chin Sol, I'll try it + the PB support over the LMP. This would also just shift my "weak point" to enemies at range instead of enemies at close.
- Chain over LMP. This would allow the clones to shoot their arrows around the pile and clear enemies off of themselves quickly while also retaining power at range. The biggest downside besides the huge mana bump is that it murders single-target clear speed (which is already hurting).
- Convocation in a 1L to pull them back to where I'm standing after throwing traps. Alongside Pierce, I think this is the ticket. As long as I'm still using Infractem, it seems to be the best way to get good clear speeds.

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Still no clear single-target solution for the build. Zombies only do so much, and I can't reliably summon clones against a small single target that evades traps. An SRS + Echo + Multistrike + Minion Speed/etc. linkage may be the secret sauce for killing off bosses, but the build has no cast speed otherwise.

It might make sense to try it out on a +X fire/cspd staff 4L in the weapon swap. A cheap Searing Touch would go a long way here, I think.

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Anyway, hopefully I'll get some maps under my belt and approach L70 shortly. Main questline done and done, just killing things around the world while I test new things. :)

Hey there Pneuma,
Thanks for all the work so far. I've been very interested in seeing a blink/mirror build hit good endgame potential, so much so I spent the past few hours mixing gem setups and passives tree points, haha.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw out my idea for a ranger acrobatics version:
http://poeurl.com/y8KyUDQ

Notable points-

Acrobatics
Ondar's Guile
Minion Instability
165% Life
220% Evasion
2 Additonal Traps & 15% trap radius
22% Aura effect

I'd be interested in your thoughts on mana cost/ aura reservations with your testing so far.

Cheers,
-Frzn

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Frznx wrote:

Hey there Pneuma,
Thanks for all the work so far. I've been very interested in seeing a blink/mirror build hit good endgame potential, so much so I spent the past few hours mixing gem setups and passives tree points, haha.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw out my idea for a ranger acrobatics version:
http://poeurl.com/y8KyUDQ

Notable points-

Acrobatics
Ondar's Guile
Minion Instability
165% Life
220% Evasion
2 Additonal Traps & 15% trap radius
22% Aura effect

I'd be interested in your thoughts on mana cost/ aura reservations with your testing so far.

Cheers,
-Frzn

Tree looks overall quite solid to me.

On the aura differences... I'm currently only running Wrath/Anger and I've got a ton of mana unreserved (only 59% reserved). That being said, I like to have a decent sized buffer so I can spam out two pairs of 3 potentially 6L trap linkages. Right now (including the lots of mana cost reduction I also have) it's ~50 mana to throw out a 4L, so 300 mana in total to unload the barrage of clones. Including the mana max/regen on my tree, I'm right at the place where I don't have to mana pot. I could probably toss on a L1 Clarity and be set.

On the trap differences... +max traps just means you can have more traps on the ground, not that you can hold more in reserve between fights, and trap damage doesn't do anything. I would actively seek out radius and especially throwing speed if it's convenient. I will probably take Expeditious Munitions on my tree since I'm right next to it.

I will say that your pathing is much better for stat requirements and leveling. I'm finding myself still needing +dex on a few pieces of gear to use the strongest bows, and a little +int to keep Wrath at a high level.

Cheers.

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Just got to level 65 and the Infractem is really tearing stuff up. Also just over 3k life which is sufficient alongside some pot usage and the regen off the tree to not be a real concern. The defensive aspects of summoning are top-tier.

I swapped to a weaker bow without piercing to test Chain and it did okay, but didn't hold a candle to the swarm of 100% piercing arrows.

I did just clear a Temple map with a few other people (levels 52, 59, 63 (me), and 69) and my dps was surprisingly workable. For the most part, I was helping out the party both with auras and with creating a ton of really meaty minions to soak up enemy aggro (and their MI deaths were taking chunks out of enemy piles). Definitely gives me strong hope for the future of the build. :)

Lol man, you are totally crazy!

I'll go on following your topic since the idea is wonderfull! GL!

"

Viriniul wrote:

Lol man, you are totally crazy!

Thank you. :)

This is the most fun I've had with a new skill in a long time. It's tricky, it's got lots of weird factors to consider, and it's not so strong or have so few active skills that it can be played while braindead.

And on top of all that, the style factor is off the charts. It reminds me of DotA's Phantom Lancer (esp. the new one with higher number of lower duration illusions), or MXL's Phalanx skill.

Level 71 update after a bunch of maps and a lot of new thoughts.


Firstly, tree changes (updated in the OP):
- Currently at this 88 point tree.
- Moving to this 88 point tree.
This gains some life, eshield, int, and mana regen.
This loses strength, mana cost reduction (eff loss: 1.27x mana cost increase (from -31 to -12 m.c.r.), evasion, and 10% all resist.

The trade is favorable and frees up much better options in the future. Allows for easy access to Puppet Master and Grave Intentions for beefier minions and more zombies as well as 1pt for a curse effect node.
(Changes the pathing, which I've worked backwards on for leveling progression.)

Secondly, curses. Not using any at the moment, but Projectile Weakness seems like the ticket. Huge damage increase as well as allowing for the possibility of 100% pierce without Infractem. Until then, Infractem is invaluable, but it's not strong enough to last forever. Will probably just hard-cast the curse myself -- no real need to do something like RoA + CoH + projweak.

Thirdly, single target is the largest weakness now. Piles melt to the piercing and occasional minion explosions. For single target enemies that run away, I'm not sure what to do. SRS feels like it may be the best option, but I've yet to experiment with it.

Fourthly, having an open Blink Arrow just for movement seems really nice. On many occasions I've been trapped in a hallway or corner and needing a way to get out. Quartz flask would work somewhat, but the Blink Arrow has the added benefit of creating Yet More Clones.

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RobbieL_GGG wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

Thirdly, single target is the largest weakness now. Piles melt to the piercing and occasional minion explosions. For single target enemies that run away, I'm not sure what to do. SRS feels like it may be the best option, but I've yet to experiment with it.

I've seen some Kinetic Blast + LMP/GMP builds that use something like Power Siphon specifically for the issue of dealing with single targets. Maybe you could do something similar?

Well, my "main clone's" damage is generally terrible.

I don't have any attack speed, weapon elemental damage, or increased physical damage. I would have to take Generosity off my auras to get my "main clone" back into the saddle for dealing damage, but that would heavily detract from my minion damage.

Similarly, I likely can't go for "weapon-less" bow damage skills like EA or PA since I can't use a +N skills bow and clones at the same time. The +skills prefixes would take up weapon damage slots, again hurting my minions significantly.

One option available to me is my weapon swap. For the most part, "big piles" and "really hard single targets" don't really go together. After I clear out the mooks, I could presumably weapon swap to something more useful and start boss killing with that.

As mentioned before, the safest thing might just be a Searing Touch/+fire+cspd staff on weapon swap with SRS. I leave my auras up, I leave up whatever minions I had before (possibly unsummoning a few clones that were from my bow linkage), except now I transition to something that is known to melt boss faces (SRS + Multistrike + MPD + X).

EDIT: I should specify that this only really comes up with map bosses (that don't summon adds) and Piety. Every rare mob and most map bosses are not a problem. I guess I could just move over to farming Merc Dom instead of Merc Piety, though I'm not 100% comfortable there.

Around what level would you say you started being able to clear things with mirror/blink arrow traps? I tried swapping at 24 with a "decent" crafted blue bow and the clones could barely touch anything before poofing away. This is with a 6l from Tabula Rasa - no notable auras though, had to run clarity just to sustain the mana cost.

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syth6 wrote:

Around what level would you say you started being able to clear things with mirror/blink arrow traps? I tried swapping at 24 with a "decent" crafted blue bow and the clones could barely touch anything before poofing away. This is with a 6l from Tabula Rasa - no notable auras though, had to run clarity just to sustain the mana cost.

As soon as you have:
- Both Skill Duration clusters
- At least one of Wrath/Anger
- Multitrap (L24)
... you should be able to start cloning full-time.

I never needed to run Clarity. I highly suggest getting at least one Elreon ring/amulet, possibly two or three. I had an Elreon Jade amulet with -8 mana cost which lasted me until Merciless.

I got comfortable with cloning around 30 skill points, or at the end of normal. I was cloning self-found/solo when I killed Normal Gravicius and haven't looked back since.

To rush through normal I just used an Ice Nova in a Lifesprig (which I found off Normal Brutus). Looking in my stash, my Ice Nova is level 8, so I swapped out at level 26-32.