Forsaken Craft: You've sort of broken your game GGG

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Vincendra wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

The economy is holding me back. Unless I want to stop having access to certain uniques I am forced to play the game in its most efficient way. Because based on that playstyle the economy dedicates the value of certain items and the exchange rates for Exalteds. So to some extend I am forced to use master crafting to keep up with the "average" income or otherwise I am not able to afford what I want to afford.

Sell my Exalts? Sure thing, as soon as I have one drop I might consider it.

So who is standing with a gun behind you while playing FORCING you?

No one. You don't need to trade. If you find it to easy, stop using trade and paly to your hearts extend with or without MF gear until the Unique you need sop desperatly drops.

There are many builds which make it possible to play them MF up to maps without trading (Totem builds/Summoners mostly).

So what youre saying is that I should be forced to play a build I dislike to have a unique drop that I want? Just as a headsup: I had multiple 90+ characters spread over leagues and I have never seen a Shavronnes or Kaoms drops. Not just for me, generally never have seen one. Not even in Onslaught where running with 500IIR/250IIQ Spork Cullers was the most normal thing. I always bought mine.

And youre telling me I am supposed to grind maps, in hope to see one of those items in a 3 month league? You have to be pretty damn delusional to play this game expecting to find the item you want in such a short amount of time. The games drop rates are balanced around the economy. Thats why no one goes into a new league and says to himself that he wants to use X and expects X to drop. He thinks about how much he has to farm to be able to afford X.

If you want an item in this game and are not playing in a permanent league you are infact forced to trade. Sure, there will be that 1 in 1000 players who wants X and has X drop. But he as well will have done so while trying to farm the money to buy X.

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DUUUUUDE

Its not Alt/Augment...

Its Alt (Tyrannical) --> Regal (Flaring).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ArsB7KohOhhpdHoyZzU2WVZZNXQxMDg4MVk1b0FGbkE&f=true&noheader=true&gid=3

Go to daggers. look up all the pre and suffixes. After Regaling only 1 Prefix, you need to roll either 1 of the same master craftable suffixes or prefixes if you dont care about the Tier it rolls.

But if you want to get flaring, you need to get the added phys dmg (1 out of 34 possible affixes you can roll with a regal there). Now, nearly every affix has up to 8 possible rolls (+ socket gems got only 3). For the maths sake, lets say on average every affix has 6 affix tiers.

So a Flaring roll is 1/204.

Now you need to consider, that you need to ALT it to ONLY roll Tryannical without any other Mod (Although you might be lucky and Alt tyranical with a good enough suffix roll (attsp/crit/critmulti).

That doesnt mean you Regal it good enough though.



You make it seem so easy to roll such a dagger.

Now it suddenly is %phys roll. A couple posts ago you implied that youre trying to get crit and attackspeed roll. How about you make up your mind before talking about crafting items and not post something and double check afterwards just to find out how wrong you were?

I dont even get what youre trying to "explain" here. As I stated already: The cost of a single Eternal/Exalt roll is about ~2000 Alterations (increasing daily). You will get a tyranical roll once every 2000, unless youre really unlucky. A friend of mine keeps crafting items in Beyond right now and he doesnt even need a tyranical roll to get a ridiculous item off of crafting.

What you dont seem to understand is that the average value in terms of alterations of a tyranical roll doesnt even equal the value of one Eternal/Exalt roll. Meaning: The probability to get something decent from one attempt is incredibly low. You will have to repeat the process lots of times. Getting a high %phys roll + something useful therefore will be cheaper, or equal in cost to Eternal/Exalting something, which you have to do for 4 mods and probably at least a handful of times per mod.

The cost that goes into getting these 2 starting mods isnt even close to the effort you have to put into rolling the remaining 4. So stop with this bullshit already.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Why the hell do you keep talking of 300+? I'm talking about 446 dps. If it was 300 dps, I couldn't give a rats ass. We're talking about INSANE gear here. Not decent gear, but the best gear one could ever hope to get.

If it was 325, even 350, I would be fine. But we're talking about 400+ items AND critical chance rolls. It broke. Flat out. And I do fully anticipate a change to this at some point in time.

Im talking about 300+ because thats what I had the budged for in the LAST LEAGUES as I said multiple times.

No one had 400+ DPS weapons until the very end of the league. And I don't care that they got it now after 3 weeks into the league.

I couldn't give less of a fuck because the ladder race allready is over, and guess what, I don't give a single fuck there too if he made it with a 450 dps dagger or Flameblast or Arc or punshed all dem creeps naked.

I just care about me beeing able to afford good an fun builds now without blowing my currency up those Economy-Warlords Asses.

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nynyny wrote:

Now it suddenly is %phys roll. A couple posts ago you implied that youre trying to get crit and attackspeed roll. How about you make up your mind before talking about crafting items and not post something and double check afterwards just to find out how wrong you were?

I dont even get what youre trying to "explain" here. As I stated already: The cost of a single Eternal/Exalt roll is about ~2000 Alterations (increasing daily). You will get a tyranical roll once every 2000, unless youre really unlucky. A friend of mine keeps crafting items in Beyond right now and he doesnt even need a tyranical roll to get a ridiculous item off of crafting.

What you dont seem to understand is that the average value in terms of alterations of a tyranical roll doesnt even equal the value of one Eternal/Exalt roll. Meaning: The probability to get something decent from one attempt is incredibly low. You will have to repeat the process lots of times. Getting a high %phys roll + something useful therefore will be cheaper, or equal in cost to Eternal/Exalting something, which you have to do for 4 mods and probably at least a handful of times per mod.

The cost that goes into getting these 2 starting mods isnt even close to the effort you have to put into rolling the remaining 4. So stop with this bullshit already.

You want a phys% added phys roll as a blue, alt regaled roll, so you can Add a Master Crit/attspd roll.

And you are talking bullshit if you are convinced that a usefull dagger MUST USE 100 OF EXALTS BECAUSE ELITISM !!!ONEONE.

That is pure bull**** gamedesign.

As if 30-50 Exalts for such a dagger isnt enough allrady. You told us that you didn't find a single exalt this league and you still talk about how easy it is.

I don't want to farm MONTHS to finish 1 of my 100 exiles I play, especially I get a reset every 3 months.

If you think its too easy then go and play with selfimplied difficulty. Don't trade, don't use Masters but don't try to take things from people who enjoy they finaly can plan and play within a reasonable timespan, because you thinks its only fair if you NOLIFE for a fu***** game.

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nynyny wrote:

What you dont seem to understand is that the average value in terms of alterations of a tyranical roll doesnt even equal the value of one Eternal/Exalt roll. Meaning: The probability to get something decent from one attempt is incredibly low. You will have to repeat the process lots of times. Getting a high %phys roll + something useful therefore will be cheaper, or equal in cost to Eternal/Exalting something, which you have to do for 4 mods and probably at least a handful of times per mod.

The cost that goes into getting these 2 starting mods isnt even close to the effort you have to put into rolling the remaining 4. So stop with this bullshit already.

What you are failing to see:

You need to hit Flaring+Tyrannical on your Alt+Regal.

Those two mods can not be substituted with master crafting, because the master crafting alternatives would probably lead to "only" a 200-300 DpS weapon.

When you craft with Eternal/Ex, whenever you hit a desired T1, you are fine, it doesn't matter if you hit "crit multiplier" before or after "attack speed".

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You are obviously right that it is less expensive to craft a weapon like this.
When I said "half the work is done" about "flaring + tyrannical", I was not talking about the stats that are required for "raw DpS". Not about the cost in Et/Ex to get the other 4 t1 stats.


And the bench crafted weapon still is only half as good as the mirrored version.

It lacks decent attack speed, it has no crit multi and it isn't maxed out on crit chance. And it has 440 DpS instead of 550.

It is still a super-strong weapon, but it is not comparable to a mirrored weapon.

And this also shows in the price, you will not have to pay 10 mirrors to get the weapon (or 1 mirror + a bunch of ex to get a copy), but something like 10-50 Ex.

Still not many of these weapons will get produced from scratch, and not many players will be able to afford making or buying them.

There's now some new level between "crazy tier" and "normal tier", and to me, that's not a bad thing.

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You want a phys% added phys roll as a blue, alt regaled roll, so you can Add a Master Crit/attspd roll.

Why are you repeating yourself? I knew that for months. You are the one who implied that you want to alt/regal crit and attackspeed.

Let alone that you dont need to find Exalteds to be able to afford them. And again: youre implying that playing with self enforced difficulty is an option. I explained multiple times why it isnt. Why the game forces you to participate in the most efficient playstyle.

If I want to use X, I am forced to participate in the meta game or else I wont be able to afford X. No matter how often you spout your "no one forces you lmoa heheh XDD" bullshit it wont change the fact that the games drop rates are balanced around trading, ergo forcing you to trade if you want access to certain items.

If you refuse to do so you will never get to hold one of them in your hands (speaking exclusively of temporary leagues here). So a person will rather participate to run the build he has fun playing as, than refusing to do so out of principle, playing a build he doesnt want to play.

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You need to hit Flaring+Tyrannical on your Alt+Regal.

But thats wrong. You dont need tier 1 rolls to craft an item that is not only brokenly overpowered but also able to make you enough money to actually hold a profit in your hands. Which significantly increases to odds to get them.

I am happy that we finally established that its not half the work to alt some mods onto a raw dagger, but it doesnt change the fact that the potential you can gain with this method simply goes into the wrong direction (once again that is my opinion, I am not claiming it to be some sort of fact - to me the game has been going into the wrong direction for a while now)

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nynyny wrote:

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You want a phys% added phys roll as a blue, alt regaled roll, so you can Add a Master Crit/attspd roll.

Why are you repeating yourself? I knew that for months. You are the one who implied that you want to alt/regal crit and attackspeed.

Let alone that you dont need to find Exalteds to be able to afford them. And again: youre implying that playing with self enforced difficulty is an option. I explained multiple times why it isnt. Why the game forces you to participate in the most efficient playstyle.

If I want to use X, I am forced to participate in the meta game or else I wont be able to afford X. No matter how often you spout your "no one forces you lmoa heheh XDD" bullshit it wont change the fact that the games drop rates are balanced around trading, ergo forcing you to trade if you want access to certain items.

If you refuse to do so you will never get to hold one of them in your hands (speaking exclusively of temporary leagues here). So a person will rather participate to run the build he has fun playing as, than refusing to do so out of principle, playing a build he doesnt want to play.

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Vincendra wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

Is this some sort of bad joke? Becuase I seriously hope it is. Youre saying that Alt/Auging two mods is half the work when everything that comes afterwards requires currency that is 500+ times as valuable? Are you having a giggle?

It is Alt/Regaling, since you want your 2 suffixes to be Crit/attspd.

Please, if its so easy, Alt/Regal such a double t1 dagger and post your results of orbs used.

Please note that i explitly said 2 suffixes, which points out that the "Multiple master mods" is another suffix. Not my problem if you can't comprehend it out of the context.

I can't find it now, but there was a guy who cleared everything up to merc dominus in JUST BLUE GEAR with 3 LINK STORMCALL on nemesis (which was HC) and he blogged it in GD. It had around 125 pages on GD.

You do abolutley not need to play the metagame.

Just be patient. Be patient as you ask form others to be if they want good weeapons. Oh the irony.

E:

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But thats wrong. You dont need tier 1 rolls to craft an item that is not only brokenly overpowered but also able to make you enough money to actually hold a profit in your hands. Which significantly increases to odds to get them.

LOL. You make it sound so easy to HIT a t1-3 roll on both phys% and added phys.

HAHAHA. Please. Try it. Tr it yourself and tell us how easy that is...

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nynyny wrote:

I am happy that we finally established that its not half the work to alt some mods onto a raw dagger

Even before FM, you could to do this:

1. Take white ambushers ilvl>77
2. Craft with alt/aug/regal/scour into:
%damage, flat damage, attack speed/crit chance
3. Obtain a dagger with serious damage.
4. Sell for a couple of Exalted Orbs (depending on the affix tiers you rolled)
5. Start again at step 1.

Did anyone care?

[Removed by Support] No one ever claimed that youre forced to participate in the meta game if you want to get to merciless. Hell, you dont even need to do so when mapping to 75+. I explicitely explained that youre forced to participate as soon as you want specific items. Theres no way around it.

[Removed by Support]

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LOL. You make it sound so easy to HIT a t1-3 roll on both phys% and added phys.

HAHAHA. Please. Try it. Tr it yourself and tell us how easy that is...

e: And you go on and mention rare again even though me explaining multiple times that what forces you to participate in the meta game are uniques. [Removed by Support]

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Did anyone care?

No one cared becuase you couldnt just craft the attack speed and crit% roll for 15 Chaos. Which is a pretty big deal and I am sure that you know that.

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nynyny wrote:

If I want to use X, I am forced to participate in the meta game or else I wont be able to afford X. No matter how often you spout your "no one forces you lmoa heheh XDD" bullshit it wont change the fact that the games drop rates are balanced around trading, ergo forcing you to trade if you want access to certain items.

If you refuse to do so you will never get to hold one of them in your hands (speaking exclusively of temporary leagues here). So a person will rather participate to run the build he has fun playing as, than refusing to do so out of principle, playing a build he doesnt want to play.

To repeat what you said:

You said, that the economy is needed for items. You say you feel forced to.

So there is mastercrafting now. Which finally lets everyone craft withouth beeing

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nynyny wrote:

]forced to participate in the meta game

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And you then say it gets too easy. What do you want now?

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nynyny wrote:

The person who implied that Alting a dagger is half the work even admitted that he was wrong by now. Youre the only one who still clings to that argument.

You're funny.

I didn't "admit I was wrong", I did clarify we are talking about different things (you: cost in et/ex, me: affixes needed for dps).