The Downfall of Zombies and Spectres in late game

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sidtherat wrote:

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bunnyxian90 wrote:

You seems deviated because you acting as a saint now that requires to consider all existing build before anyone or yourself can gives a concern and voice it up about self build.

stopped reading right there and wont bother looking at your posts and points ever again

Just get out from this thread, Mr.Saint.
Continue your philosophy "If one freaking build out there cannot do it, I cannot complain about my build range and will stop everyone making a point about it in Feedback" elsewhere.


You have forgotten to prove your disagreement by posting your gears and dedicated successive gameplays to every summoners that is truly concerned here.
Oh well, and you are gone with just a few of coughs of words.

I follow you bunnyxian.

I NEVER used snapshot before and I NEVER expect zombie/spectre to whoop atziri ass.
I do expect lvl 20 gem minions not to die on fkng white 66 maps.
And dont give me that BSht block rng luck dependant necro aegis or playstyle junk.

Btw what is the point in convocation regen? I play 13k life zombies and they get what? 120 life from convocation while they need 6k or even 10k or more in some cases?
I better raise new ones.

Doesnt work for spectres tho.


And for the thread crashers, pls dont comment on threads that dont concern you.
And if you do, give an objective or even subjective opinion if it could benefit gameplay and dont get rude to ppl pls.

Convocation prime feature is its minions recalling to your side regardless the terrain form.
The HP regen indeed is low at a plain observance but it acts as an additional buffer to the life regen for Minions.
It acts as a supplementary healing for 72 seconds (20% Quality Convocation) and not as a huge injection of life recovery.

Lets take a look in details,

Considering you have taken both Minion Life Regeneration nodes in the passive which resulting in 2.5% Regen of Max Life per second and an example of 10k hp zombie, they are basically regenerating at 250 hp per second.
Meanwhile, convocation able to give 100 hp per second on top of that. It can be easily seen that Convocation gives 40% increased life regen per second for Zombies and Spectres.
Although, it is not a good burst of healing, it can act as a comfortable buff against heavy chaos damage per second, burning damage and reduce bleeding dmg.

Somehow, if you have 13k hp Zombies, you can't expect them to die at all in lvl66 Maps considering you have taken life leech nodes and additional life regeneration nodes too for Minions.
Basically, you might need melee splash, multistrike and Life Leech as a basic set for survival.

In my experience, I heavily recommend having Minion Life only instead of an inclusion of Monstregul. 8k HP is overkill in contents below 71 Maps. Try avoid wearing Monstregul, the DPS is much more important in early to mid game content. Reducing the number of zombies for unnecessary tanking should be avoided at all cost.

I have suffered from early game since I started my first char as pure summoner. Later in higher levels, I noticed lvl20 Zombie gem with appropriate support gems coupled with Evangelist or Tittie Bitches Spectres (Appropriate support gems linked), can faceroll all contents below lvl71 Temple, where the defense of own character starts to matter much more.


I really couldn't think how a 13k Zombie can die in such scenario as you have mentioned.
Unless, you have low survivability on your summoner char or you didn't take Minion regen and Life Leech nodes for your summons.
Kinda weird though, mind to post your gears and Passive? I don't know much but at least I can try give some insight on your build.

It was a spectre loss. Zombies are okay, spectres suck ballz.

And lost zombies on invasion boss spider lvl 68.
13 k on 70- maps proven not enough lol.

1 mouseclick np

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bunnyxian90 wrote:

I really couldn't think how a 13k Zombie can die in such scenario as you have mentioned.
Unless, you have low survivability on your summoner char or you didn't take Minion regen and Life Leech nodes for your summons.

There is a breaking point in which content will just bulldoze one's summons. Stuff that hits my character for 3k damage (using my expected damage resist with a flask) will hit my zombies (assuming maxed resists on them) for 7.5k damage and if they have 50% resist will do around 15k damage. A stronger hit that would risk one shot killing me will wipe all of my summons off the field at once even at maxxed resists; while a spawn of multiple mobs all using AoEs, attacks that can hit more then once over an area (piety's lightning ball), spells that can shotgun and stuff like that will just make them vanish in the blink of a eye regardless of how much I do to make them tanky.

And if you have minion instability, that is 33% less hitpoints for them anyway, so that 13k hp zombie is now just a 8.5k hp zombie before it explodes itself anyway. So that AoE spell that took half my life just caused all my summons to either die or self detonate anyway.


It's always been that way with summons, either they cannot be harmed or they just vanish in the blink of the eye...

Why is this just a SRS vs zombie/spectre debate?
Lets face it, SRS is completely broken if you abuse it correctly.
Its not that zombies and spectres are useless when compared to SRS... every build is useless when compared to SRS.
You can build a very tanky character going the SRS abuse route, but still deal more damage than any other build out there.

This should not be a thread about the downfall of zombies, it should be a thread about how broken SRS is and how it needs a 80% damage efficiency nerf so it doesnt gain millions of dps through the abuse of auras.
Comparing anything to SRS to ask for a buff is just ridiculous considering how broken SRS is.

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gh0un wrote:

Why is this just a SRS vs zombie/spectre debate?
Lets face it, SRS is completely broken if you abuse it correctly.
Its not that zombies and spectres are useless when compared to SRS... every build is useless when compared to SRS.
You can build a very tanky character going the SRS abuse route, but still deal more damage than any other uild out there.
This should not be a thread about the downfall of zombies, it should be a thread about how broken SRS is and how it needs a 80% damage efficiency nerf so it doesnt gain millions of dps through the abuse of auras.
Comparing anything to SRS to ask for a buff is just ridiculous considering how broken SRS is.

There is a serious issue with Summoner in late game. Most of us here choose to ignore the flaw since everyone defending that Zombies and Spectres are okay while silently hiding their success is behind a build costing hundreds folds of exalts investment.

Is a build that requires that much investment only able to play lvl76 Maps and beyond is a good meta to you? There is limited choice for Zombies and Spectres out there, you are just one of those players that choose to ignore to accept the hard fact.

Let's walk with me here,
How many successful players using Spectres and Zombies out there able to avoid using Empower, Shavronne, low life Auras and +2 to minion level Rare Helm?
Those that able to show it, see how many their gameplays record able to point there is not problem in ultra end game maps, 1...2, just tell us?

SRS is just taken as a point to show amongst the Summons, there is one prevailing and others are not a choice to be taken by anyone without 200 exalts, as simple as that.

SRS cheaper, superior and easier than Zombie and Spectres to build with and its never been about SRS is broken or OP.
It can set an example on how fun a build and cheap to gear it with without a heavy investment of your fortune.
Of all players, there are some players like you love to see a nerf on everything else only able to see a point of balance. In fact, it never been about the issues of SRS being overpowered, it is about how successful a gem can be in a build and proven new-player-friendly. Zombies and Spectres summoner love to see that happen for their minions as well with fun factor in all ultra end game maps. It doesn't have to be easy but looking at the limited choice, being able to survive is the only key for summoner. Survival of Zombies and Spectres.

Never turn away from the fate of Zombies and Spectres now because of the mindset concluding SRS is overpowered, so there is no issue with the other summons. Look at how often Spectres die in late game and how you of all people able to find one again in a map that is totally isolated from the specific monster spawn. How convenient it is? Lets not even talk about conveniency because you can't even play with Spectres in end game maps.
You just need to have hundreds of exalts build that able to kill lvl76-78 boss as soon as possible before your minions or yourself die. There is no other option.

Admit it, Zombies and Spectres can never be abused if you don't have 200 exalts.
Otherwise, prove to all of us here are wrong with dozen of gameplays in ultra end game maps and show your gears doesn't require more than 50 exalts to play successfully.

Choices for Zombies and Spectres are an illusion.
Give yourself or anyone 200 exalts, you cheated yourself a successful build.
There is no different gearings other than the preset top notch gems and gears in end game.
Just plain investment on the same path for Zombies and Spectres.

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Stuff that hits my character for 3k damage (using my expected damage resist with a flask) will hit my zombies (assuming maxed resists on them) for 7.5k damage and if they have 50% resist will do around 15k damage.

What in the world would hit you for 3k and your minion for 7.5k to 15k? Is this elemental damage and your resists are 90% or something without using Purity of <your element>?

@bunnyxian

A long post, but you still dont get it.
Stop comparing zombies and spectres to SRS to ask for a buff.
SRS needs to be nerfed to the ground. It is cheaper and stronger than any build out there, its not limited to being stronger than zombies and spectres.

There are several builds in this game that need heavy currency investment to become viable on level 77+ maps, not just zombies and spectres.
But there is only one build that is so OP that you can do it not only faster than anyone else but also with extremely cheap gear. That´s SRS for you.

Once SRS is nerfed to the ground and incapable of doing level 77+ maps with cheap ass gear, you can start comparing zombies and spectres to other builds and how well they fare in comparison.
From here you can proceed to ask for a buff.

Saying that SRS is cheapass and is better than zombies in order to conclude that zombies need a buff is just nonsense.

If you compare stuff with SRS you would have to buff 95% of the other builds that are out there to make them on par. The faster route is to just nerf SRS to the ground.

@gh0un

Maybe you dont get it, for every other build there exists gear with which you can become very very powerfull. There is no such thing for spectres/zombies. The only gear that helps is level 10-20 which also gimps you regarding es/life, resists.