The Downfall of Zombies and Spectres in late game

I play summoner with my friends who quit. My zombies and spectres died a lot in 77-78 maps before Forsaken Masters came out. I always have to recast them all the time and cast whatever trash spectre is available in the map.

So Forsaken Masters got released. I log into the game to fix my build since the Witch tree has been changed. I do a low level 71 Strand map and a Forsaken Master is in the map asking me to do their quest. I cannot complete the quest because all my zombies and spectres die too fast from whatever mob is in that quest.

What did I do then?

I logged out on the day the patch came out and never logged back in.

Let's just face it, spectres and zombies combo is just not viable without INSANE GEARING like RMT INSANE GEARING. It never has been and never will be. I gave up of having any hope that GGG will fix summoners or totems. You want a real summoner? Go play the necromancer in Diablo 2. That's a real summoner for you. Sadly even as bad as D3 is the Witch Doctor still has better summons than PoE's summons.

We sacrifice so many points into the nodes for summons and so much gearing and our summons are still shit. They don't even taunt and hold aggro and we still have to highly armor up ourselves at the same process as putting a ton of points into minion nodes. This leaves us with zero self-cast damage and our zombies and spectres still do shit damage while we have shit defense.

So what do we do then?

WE QUIT! That is always an option and that's what I practically did. There is no reason to play zombie/spectre summoner because they do not work at all for end game content.

GGG really needs to get their shit together. I bet they regret nerfing spark totems as pretty much nobody does spell totems anymore and even if they did they only do SRS and Flame Totem. So much for a variety of builds.

I play a summoner as well and I have actually only started playing other chars cuz I feel I can't achieve anything higher than 75 with zomb/spec....I actually feel pretty useless in a group of 6 ppl. I usually skip most of the higher lvl bosses because either I or my minions are too weak or even both...

Yup confirmed again... spectres SUCK
zombies are average

but spectres are a joke!


needs a major buff...

only reason I keep playing now is my gems will hit lvl20 in the next 2 weeks or so.
After that I put them to sleep for good. They can't even do a 68 map now (lvl18 evangelist spectres) without at least 1 dying on a boss.


several options:
*necro aegis needs buff. REMOVE the part where it says apply to minions INSTEAD of you
*montregul life buff is very good, but no dmg on zombies.... I calculated mine on +-6.9k dps at lvl 20 gems on a 5 link


4 zombies = 25-30k dps but we all know thats theory as the zombie ai is too stupid to achieve all 4 attacking the same target at the same time and other factors




Is ggg really pushing me towards the meta SrS build?
Please buff em more!




as for mirror gear and rmt crap summoner? I dont see how that could benefit.

I mostly play summoner and I can relate to allot of the points posted here. Most lower level maps pose little threat to summoners right up until the mid 70's (don't even get me started on the jungle valley boss though). DPS isn't the problem, its just that, for one reason or another, your specters will die on the higher level boss fights.

My main problem recently is the Evangelists habit of running into melee range whenever I right click a unique mob, don't ask me why, and even if they don't their shield down time is usually enough time for them to die. 1 temple piety lighting ball or storm and they pop, convocation by itself is ineffective at properly positioning your minions for boss fights that last longer than 10 sec(makes me want to use ribbons again, love their "sit back and not get hit" AI).

The buffed Mon'tregul's Grasp has been my saving grace recently, keeping up 4 super beefy zombies is a ton easier than keeping up 9+ squishy ones, and they can usually finish the job on their own since they can last several seconds of sustained damage without dying, have moderately good damage, and I can re-summon them endlessly.

As far we all can conclude,

♣ Spectres are prone to death in ultra high end maps, where the real problems arise. You are forced to summon any useless Spectres around as a replacement.

♣ Zombies are moderate and the issues of them are not about DPS entirely, it is about the survivability. Low to half end game, they prevail well but still prone to rapid death due to AOE elemental dmg in ultra high end maps.

♣ Zombies and Spectres are at worst when its involve about damage mitigation. AOE dmg is the real threat to summoner in late game. The 13% hp buff to the Zombie is totally useless since the damage mitigation of AOE dmg in late game will crush them easily without insane amount of gearing cost, etc RMT and no lifer farmings.

♣ Sceptres resummoning is causing the summoner to have uneasy time in this game, not just because their survivability, but the need to find their spawning map are tedious. Most of the time, we are in different map of where they can be summoned.

♣ As for Zombies and Spectres summoner, the only way to finish the game is to have RMT gears or hardcore farmers or years of grinding plays only able to make the build viable for all end game content. While, taking a look at SRS, they can easily achieve all that with 10 exalts.

♣ We cannot deny that SRS as a summon gems too, are more viable by miles than playing Zombies and Spectres. Most of veteran players in Witch section have chosen to play SRS because they are far more superior in terms of DMG and needless to worry about their survivability against high DMG from enemy.

♣ There is no way to make a viable build with Zombies and Spectres without SRS if you don't have 200 exalts for gearings.
There is never been a single guide for summoners that able to make a cheap build and do ultra high end maps, exclusively lvl77 and onwards map.

♣ All the guide that shown to new and old players alike, that able to play Zombies and Spectres successfully if not with limited recorded gameplays, are using 200 exalts build.
Its not a viable option at all.

♣ Do not get carried away by SRS gem because of their success, because right now as the lover of Zombie and Spectre, we must appeal for a further buff for them in order to be more fun to play with and able to do high end maps with moderate budgets, give or take 50 exalts.

♣ Some of us as summoner do not recognize SRS as a summon as a temporary summons that deal DPS based on your cast speed as the prime factor. Therefore, SRS is not a solution proof for summoners to make a more viable build with Zombie and Spectres.

♣ Personally, I hate SRS but at this point, the meta is forcing me to get it in my build because I have no choice.

well.. youve got an agenda going right there

srs is OP, people flock to OP, so people are playing SRS

zombies and spectres are no longer 'i win' button from the snapshot time so people complain

im pretty sure that it is possible to do what you claim is impossible - but there is no incentive to do it. there are no points for 'style' and if SRS works better (and it does, it is OP atm) people couldnt care less about zombies and spectres

most summoners got so used to a vision of having 60 sockets on their items that they now are shocked that they have to make CHOICES

btw AOE dmg? necro aegis pretty much solves that. my zombies died to Maegera but not a single one died to hasted temple piety and my summoner currently is under construction. element aura + flasks of animation + good placement + enfeeble and bosses are not big of a problem

"

sidtherat wrote:

well.. youve got an agenda going right there
srs is OP, people flock to OP, so people are playing SRS
zombies and spectres are no longer 'i win' button from the snapshot time so people complain
im pretty sure that it is possible to do what you claim is impossible - but there is no incentive to do it. there are no points for 'style' and if SRS works better (and it does, it is OP atm) people couldnt care less about zombies and spectres
most summoners got so used to a vision of having 60 sockets on their items that they now are shocked that they have to make CHOICES
btw AOE dmg? necro aegis pretty much solves that. my zombies died to Maegera but not a single one died to hasted temple piety and my summoner currently is under construction. element aura + flasks of animation + good placement + enfeeble and bosses are not big of a problem

With all due of respect, post your gears here and a video compilation on your gameplay to stress your point.

Besides that, SRS is not the main issue here, because I am merely trying to show that Zombies and Spectres build alone unable to do high end maps unless with RMT gears or insane amount of farming while SRS induction able to change all that. Due to one freaking gem, it seems every summoner make an intake of SRS to solve all their Zombie and Spectres problem.

The high end maps here that I am referring is not the silly little lvl70 to lvl76 Maps. lvl77 Shrine's Piety is too easy sometimes depending on the roll of the Map and RNG of her Avatar transformation based on the circle she stepped into.

Perhaps you are one of the summoner that able to prevail how successful you are as a Zombie and Spectres summoner, but look at the cost and how often you can do lvl78 Maps without insane gears.

Don't let your ignorance on the snapshot stuff gets into your opinions that much, because even before 1.2, when the snapshot era is there, all summoner still requires a freaking amount of fortune to do Atziri.
Don't joke please.

And right now, post 1.2 patch, SRS is the key to fix all that.
This whole thread I made is so that GGG can consider how Zombie and Spectre build state are in true late game. Either you need a fortune or SRS induction.
Is that really an option?

Most of us here hoping for a change, a change that we are no longer require to suffer from the weakness and vulnerability of meta around Spectres and Zombies in end game without taking SRS.

if you stop focusing on atziri so much and look around you can see that there are plethora of other builds that were unable to do atziri

summoners (zombie/spectre) were not the only one and are still not the only one that struggle vs her. the mere 'cannot be stunned/ignited/shocked etc' part kills many many builds - stunlock/ele prolif builds are out immediately.

so you are right - some builds are better or worse vs different content. will that change? no.

"

sidtherat wrote:

if you stop focusing on atziri so much and look around you can see that there are plethora of other builds that were unable to do atziri

summoners (zombie/spectre) were not the only one and are still not the only one that struggle vs her. the mere 'cannot be stunned/ignited/shocked etc' part kills many many builds - stunlock/ele prolif builds are out immediately.

so you are right - some builds are better or worse vs different content. will that change? no.

I am talking from the perspective of summoner, that is why I am surrounding all my opinions on the matter and issues of them.
You seems deviated because you acting as a saint now that requires to consider all existing build before anyone or yourself can give a concern and voice it up about self build.


Like I have requested, with all due of respect, post your gears here and make a recording on your gameplay, maybe starting from lvl76, 77 and 78. Try don't make a single video only, because most players out there love to brag one lucky RNG able to own one hard boss and claiming there is no flaw in his build.

Forget about Atziri, because I am sure you never touch that map with Summoner build and simply because you just one sore saint that defending "If one freaking build out there cannot do it, I cannot complain about my build range and will stop everyone making a point about it in Feedback"

Just to be honest, you all talk. In this form of constructed feedback since the first post, I was kind of expecting someone who disagreed with me able to prove his or her point by showing multiple gameplays and gears. Hoping some of my points listed are wrong, but well words alone only from someone who disagreed pretty much a breath at the air.
Would love you to share your fantastic non-200 exalt builds and able to play lvl78 maps a dozen times without problems at least, right?

Thanks.

"

bunnyxian90 wrote:

You seems deviated because you acting as a saint now that requires to consider all existing build before anyone or yourself can gives a concern and voice it up about self build.

stopped reading right there and wont bother looking at your posts and points ever again