endurance charge/stun love

so i've been playing more tanky nowadays after dying 1203192801 times due to inadequate skills/desyncs/low hp/low armor

i like the concept of charges but i feel its a bit unfair for endurance. lets break it down (assuming no uniques, only using passives and skill/support gems)

Frenzy
Easy as hell to generate, frenzy skill works with any weapon, self sustains and increase amount of frenzy and each subsequent frenzy makes the next frenzy charge generation faster.
Also can use bloodrage as an alternate means to gain frenzy, freeing the dependance of frenzy skill

Power
The opposite to frenzy as the active skill works on kill while power charge on crit makes it increasingly easier to generate/sustain power charges.

Endurance
Enduring cry (cries) works best when surrounded by a lot of mobs, else it generates a measely 1 endurance charge. sacrifices your time/mana to cast it and requires more manual work to keep it going. has a cooldown to prevent spamming (the other charge generators have no CD!). The only Pro about this skill is you do not need to "damage" an enemy to use it
Work arounds for enduring cry: CWDT, not too reliable but at the very least requires no work on the player's side as it is an automated response.
Mark of warlord, requires mana/cast time. has some bonuses by giving the enemy debuffs. has a duration, and not 100% chance to gain a charge on kill.
Endurance charge on stun is the best for endurance charge generators.... provided you have enough stunning power....

Then you realize some bosses/maps have enemies immune to stun or have so much hp they are simply unstunnable for most builds...

GGG please give endurance charges more love! Power and frenzy charges are generated by playing the game (damaging enemies) and seem seamless, while endurance charges require more focus on generating them manually and worrying that the charges timeout.

i know there are uniques that help, such as darresso's chest, but mechanically it's still difficult to generate reliably.

imagine a boss fight. lets say atziri for example. frenzy users just gain frenzy by attacking, and power charges get generated on crits (high crit builds can do this constantly).

what does endurance have? i attack atziri and she's immune to stun thus zero chance to gain endurance due to the immunity? what can i do? cast enduring cry every 4 seconds? curse the small mobs before killing her at the risk i dont kill them fast enough with only a chance of gaining a charge/kill?

I disagree. You can't generate power and frenzy charges only by slapping cwdt + another gem in any item. Power charge on crit takes a gem slot in your main dps skill. Using frenzy means you actually have to... use frenzy instead of any other skill.

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Krayken wrote:

I disagree. You can't generate power and frenzy charges only by slapping cwdt + another gem in any item. Power charge on crit takes a gem slot in your main dps skill. Using frenzy means you actually have to... use frenzy instead of any other skill.

And to gain Endurance charges you either have to dedicate a whole item to it (Cwdt setup) or use a skill gem also (Enduring cry hardcast/Endurance charge on melee stun).

Endurance charges from a ECoS are pretty easy to get... until you find yourself facing against one of the act bosses that isn't surrounded by adds. Good luck getting any stun on that life pool using only a 5-link.

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Broliciously wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

I disagree. You can't generate power and frenzy charges only by slapping cwdt + another gem in any item. Power charge on crit takes a gem slot in your main dps skill. Using frenzy means you actually have to... use frenzy instead of any other skill.

And to gain Endurance charges you either have to dedicate a whole item to it (Cwdt setup) or use a skill gem also (Enduring cry hardcast/Endurance charge on melee stun).

as brolicious mentioned, you need to dedicate CWDT setup, minimum is a 2 link, whereas for PCOC is 1 link to your main attack - which also makes you more likely to crit (more dps), which also makes you more likely to generate more power charges. while on CWDT you need to get hit for it to trigger and multiple hits do not trigger enduring cry due to enduring cry's cooldown limitation.

for frenzy, you only need minimum 1 slot, attack using frenzy a few times and you're good to go, heck even frenzy by itself is a good attack. anyway any build relying on frenzy charges usually incorporates frenzy as part of the build. and the best part is its ok to switch to a different attack after gaining max frenzy coz you can always switch back to frenzy to get a guaranteed frenzy charged reliably.

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gilrad wrote:

Endurance charges from a ECoS are pretty easy to get... until you find yourself facing against one of the act bosses that isn't surrounded by adds. Good luck getting any stun on that life pool using only a 5-link.

^^ this ^^ also, some maps/bosses have immune to stun. RIP endurance charges. compare this to PCOC where some maps/bosses make it more difficult to crit by lowering your crit chance but they dont actually make the mob immune to crits.

I still remember sadly when they nerfed EC from 5% to 4% and slapped on the global cooldown so you couldn't just run two gems and double cry your charges up. Happy days.

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gilrad wrote:

Endurance charges from a ECoS are pretty easy to get... until you find yourself facing against one of the act bosses that isn't surrounded by adds. Good luck getting any stun on that life pool using only a 5-link.

I perma-stun piety merciless with 3l setup (Heavy Strike-Stun-Endurance Charge on Melee Stun) with a 220dps weapon.

Also OP, there was a reason endurance charges got nerfed from 5% res and armour per charge to 4%, they are too damn strong if you build around them

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Icholas wrote:

I still remember sadly when they nerfed EC from 5% to 4% and slapped on the global cooldown so you couldn't just run two gems and double cry your charges up. Happy days.

I also remember when flick strike didnt have a global cooldown..... qwert left/right/middle mouse.. ALL FLICKER lol

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gilrad wrote:

Endurance charges from a ECoS are pretty easy to get... until you find yourself facing against one of the act bosses that isn't surrounded by adds. Good luck getting any stun on that life pool using only a 5-link.

I perma-stun piety merciless with 3l setup (Heavy Strike-Stun-Endurance Charge on Melee Stun) with a 220dps weapon.

Also OP, there was a reason endurance charges got nerfed from 5% res and armour per charge to 4%, they are too damn strong if you build around them

i dont really care about the nerf as it i can live with 4%. doing merciless peity with 3L is quite easy, you're a proof of it. try imagining this then, doing a map with "monsters cannot be stunned". good luck getting 5 charges fast and consistantly

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Icholas wrote:

I still remember sadly when they nerfed EC from 5% to 4% and slapped on the global cooldown so you couldn't just run two gems and double cry your charges up. Happy days.

You can use Spell Echo to do two ECs in quick succession. Spell Echo bypasses the cooldown for that 2nd cry.