Trade Hate: Which one takes more skill?

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wrathmar wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

1. This is not an MMO.

A. Persistent online world. It's not persistent. It's all instanced. It also has a low max population per instance.
B. Sign on required to access your account. Irrelevant. MTG and StarCraft have this feature as well.
C. Multi-player focus. Multiplayer enabled. Even so, you counter your own argument if you stick to this point.
D. Large number of players. But almost none of them play together. They merely share a chat channel.
E. Gameplay balanced around Player to Player trades. Trade balance has nothing to do with MMOs. See the MTG example again.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck…. It would probably be a duck. It's too bad this one isn't.

You really have run out of legitimate arguments if you have to make an irrelevant claim such as "PoE is an MMO."

One more note on point 5. COH2 lets people group up and play together, as does League of Legends, and nobody who knows what MMO actually means would try to claim them as such either.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

1. This is not an MMO.

A. Persistent online world. It's not persistent. It's all instanced. It also has a low max population per instance.
B. Sign on required to access your account. Irrelevant. MTG and StarCraft have this feature as well.
C. Multi-player focus. Multiplayer enabled. Even so, you counter your own argument if you stick to this point.
D. Large number of players. But almost none of them play together. They merely share a chat channel.
E. Gameplay balanced around Player to Player trades. Trade balance has nothing to do with MMOs. See the MTG example again.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck…. It would probably be a duck. It's too bad this one isn't.

You really have run out of legitimate arguments if you have to make an irrelevant claim such as "PoE is an MMO."

One more note on point 5. COH2 lets people group up and play together, as does League of Legends, and nobody who knows what MMO actually means would try to claim them as such either.

okay... doesn't really mater if agree with the MMO classification. I still think a long term Decent league would be a positive addition to the game and should satisfy the demographic asking for a league that is not balanced around trading.

Wow why are some people so vehemently opposed to a new league suggestion? Even if it's only 10% of the game population that would like a self found league why is it a big deal if GGG were to implement it to make all of those people happy?

How is it hurting anyone else to develop this new league? "OMG GGG will be working on SF crap and not the things that I want them to work on!!!!!1!1" Is that an honest opinion? Can you really be that self-centered and immature?

On one side we have players voicing a suggestion for a new league that would be more enjoyable for them. On the other side we have players saying no don't do anything except what I personally find enjoyable, anything else would be wasting resources!

Doesn't matter if they are asking for a game mode where all belts now have 10L, what matters is that many players would enjoy the game more, and possibly invest more into it, if they had a new league with some different rules. Why do self centered pricks need to butt in just to say "your idea is stupid, GGG should only focus on what I want them to focus on"

Serious question here - What would players that trade lose if a self found league was implemented?

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Cribstaxx wrote:

Serious question here - What would players that trade lose if a self found league was implemented?

Probably afraid the people they rip off to get rich will leave?

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MierenEronaile wrote:

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Cribstaxx wrote:

Serious question here - What would players that trade lose if a self found league was implemented?

Probably afraid the people they rip off to get rich will leave?

This just shows how widely you guys have missed the point. GGG's statement for what the game is designed to be is in opposition to your "suggestion." That's why it comes down to "play something else then."

Nobody is worried about "losing people to rip off" if they are saying, "go play D3 instead." Why is this a difficult logical concept?

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Nobody is worried about "losing people to rip off" if they are saying, "go play D3 instead." Why is this a difficult logical concept?

Here's a concept that's easy to grasp. D3 is not PoE. Telling people to Go play D3 is rude and illogical. Its assuming that anyone interested in a SFL in PoE would enjoy D3 which is a complete load of BS.

Posting this again

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iamstryker wrote:

Leagues do have different sets of rules, that's the entire point. One league doesn't break the game and its certainly not a reason to rudely tell someone to go play a different game.

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iamstryker wrote:

Leagues do have different sets of rules, that's the entire point. One league doesn't break the game and its certainly not a reason to rudely tell someone to go play a different game.

I don't know why you want to repost that as if it's a meaningful point. The existing leagues don't conflict with GGG's statement of their game design. What you guys are asking for is to do just that. This has been said repeatedly, and you keep coming back with, "But muh idea." Ideas are cheap. Suggestions are cheap. You must give more justification for them to be real, and going against their design philosophy is not how you will accomplish this.

Also, comparing Ambush to Invasion and saying that have "different rules" is laughable. The only major difference that anyone cares about is perma-death. They don't have increased drop rates to make it easier. The idea is to make it harder. This is why SFL will probably never see the light of day outside of (possibly) private paid-for leagues.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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MierenEronaile wrote:

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Cribstaxx wrote:

Serious question here - What would players that trade lose if a self found league was implemented?

Probably afraid the people they rip off to get rich will leave?

This just shows how widely you guys have missed the point. GGG's statement for what the game is designed to be is in opposition to your "suggestion." That's why it comes down to "play something else then."

Nobody is worried about "losing people to rip off" if they are saying, "go play D3 instead." Why is this a difficult logical concept?

Yep, because GGG can not, possibly, for any reason, change their mind.

God forbid people on the internet trying to convince other people to change their mind that will NEVER happen. Clearly we should play a different game because we even considered doing it.

Fuck, this is just stupid.

Also, my comment about you being afraid of losing to rip people off doesnt imply I missed the point, it just implies I think thats the reason a lot of people are so concerned. Deal with it.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

I don't know why you want to repost that as if it's a meaningful point.

Its a lot more meaningful than your "go play D3" line.

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The existing leagues don't conflict with GGG's statement of their game design. What you guys are asking for is to do just that.

Duh. When did I say that it didn't? I seriously don't care if it does or doesn't. I don't work for GGG, I have my own opinions, and the fact that they advertise this game as having a barter system is a load of crap. It doesn't, so why would I defend that system? I'll ask for what I think I would enjoy.

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You must give more justification for them to be real, and going against their design philosophy is not how you will accomplish this.

Our justification has already been posted. I don't care what you think of it or not, you don't need to keep asking for it when its already been written.

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They don't have increased drop rates to make it easier. The idea is to make it harder. This is why SFL will probably never see the light of day outside of (possibly) private paid-for leagues.

Thats great. I don't care if its a paid league or not.

If your going to criticize SFL at least be honest about it, it would no more be "easier" than Ambush was compared to Standard. Increased drop rates is just to balance out the no trading. It certainly wouldn't actually be easier. Ambush having lots of chests full of loot that you can roll was a huge change and definitely made it easier, so that old argument that GGG won't make a league easier than standard was apparently a load of bull as well.

When you look at it from a philosophical perspective free trading is immoral. It's not immoral by definiton, but the dynamics of a free market make it immoral.

Accumulating wealth (profit - the end goal in the free market) would be impossible in a system where people only exchange things of equal value (outside of abstract "things"), which means that, if someone wants to accumulate wealth others necessarily have to lose wealth.

This doesn't just apply to Path of Exile though, it also applies to the real world market.

The free market system is antiquated and altough it may have been a necessary evil in the past it is no longer necessary.

What makes me sad though is that this "free market-concept" even extends to games where it is absolutely not necessary, never was and never will be.