Wander problems

"

Thirion wrote:

I didn't watch the whole video because looking at it from a math point of view your argumentation is wrong.

First without CoE :
No incr damage : damage = 500 * base damage
10% incr damage : damage = 550 * base damage
10% incr crit mult : damage = 510 * base damage

With CoE :
No Incr damage : damage = 1000 * base damage
10% incr damage : damage = 1050 * base damage
10% incr crit mult : damage = 1020 * base damage

I didn't read your whole post because the maths is wrong, unless you meant to interpret it a different way. I don't even understand what you're trying to say with that "without CoE and With CoE."

Critical strike multiplier is an inherent 150% multiplier, which is affected by Increased crit multi to amplify that specific 150% base.

It's a multiplier which multiplies everything, regardless of CoE or not.

For example, assuming 100% crit.

1000 dps no CoE with 200% crit multi is 2000 dps.
2000 dps with CoE with 200% crit multi is 4000 dps.

Both times they are doubled, which reflects the statement i made.

"

qquno wrote:

Care to watch whole video? Point is, "%inc damage" which you referring is applied to physical damage of wand while "%crit multi" applied to phy/ele

And? I never said anything against that. My point was that at some point its better to get %incr damage than more %crit multi - CoE shifts that point far away - meaning without CoE the passives are useful and balanced.

"

and NO anger/wrath/hatred is NOT equal to low life, not to mention if you play in the party you can leech auras.

Passives have to balanced for most of the players - not only some insane endgame softcore players. As a casual/hardcore player and/or a solo player you need a defensive aura like grace/det/purity - and then anger/wrath/hatred is equal to low life.

"

So your math is correct in some "ghetto solo no auras wander" case only.

No - its correct for a hatred + grace/det - and thats almost all HC players / solo players and a few party players too - meaning probably at least 50% of wander builds.

"

Auras is not something artificial or rare in the current meta so you can't ignore it in the "math".

See above.

"

Also, you spend LESS skill points on "%inc crit multi" than on "%inc phy damage" this is also major idea why wand nodes suck.

You didn't understand what i wrote - try it again please.

"

Auras actually quite great since they let you make nice DPS even with trash weapon, only APS matter (ele buzzsaw), or APS + local crit for crit builds (flubby).

Where did i say anything against that?

"

I didn't read your whole post because the maths is wrong, unless you meant to interpret it a different way.

My math is not wrong, its a bit simplified and vague but that doesn't change my point. You are right that incr multi is a 150% incr multi - but everbody knows that and doesn't really change my point? Read my whole post perhaps then you understand the math behind it (and well, its not as simple as your calculations).

"

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with that "without CoE and With CoE."

Then try to understand how CoE works and what it does - and how it affects passive nodes.
In my calculation you can see that in both cases you get an additional 50 damage with %incr crit but you get 20 damage instead of 10 with CoE and %incr crit mult - meaning %crit mult is more effective with CoE but %incr dmg stays the same. And because of that your statement is wrong.

"

Both times they are doubled, which reflects the statement i made.

True, BUT : CoE reduces the effectiveness of %incr damage - thus your test in the video is wrong for builds without CoE - because %incr damage is more effective then.

"

Thirion wrote:

"

So your math is correct in some "ghetto solo no auras wander" case only.

No - its correct for a hatred + grace/det - and thats almost all HC players / solo players and a few party players too - meaning probably at least 50% of wander builds.

"

Auras is not something artificial or rare in the current meta so you can't ignore it in the "math".

See above.

Forgive my next soft core rant, but...

all I see is solo HC player which get used to think what hatred / grace is the only auras around. I am sorry, but I simply leeched anger/wrath/haste/PoF/PoL from a mate who run ele buzzsaw (alpha howl allow shit load of auras even without shav and its +2 to auras gems as well, insane powerful) and leveled to 93 with little to none auras investment on passive tree. When he was around I did like 50k chain or something, and when he was too far, I had like zero DPS. And that nothing special, heard of Pulp? As I recall his ele wander simply leeched all the auras from mate as well, that a HC if I not mistaken.

I am not gonna even reply to other sentences you did, since it based on the nonsense statment what anger/wrath is soft core specific and you need insane end-game tree and insane gear...

"

qquno wrote:

Forgive my next soft core rant, but...

all I see is solo HC player which get used to think what hatred / grace is the only auras around. I am sorry, but I simply leeched anger/wrath/haste/PoF/PoL from a mate who run ele buzzsaw (alpha howl allow shit load of auras even without shav and its +2 to auras gems as well, insane powerful) and leveled to 93 with little to none auras investment on passive tree. When he was around I did like 50k chain or something, and when he was too far, I had like zero DPS. And that nothing special, heard of Pulp? As I recall his ele wander simply leeched all the auras from mate as well, that a HC if I not mistaken.

Well, there are some pure support builds - but thats not how 80% of the people play PoE. And because of that they shouldn't balance based on that.

You could apply the same reasoning to a dagger build too - in a party with an aura bot its way better to get more crit passives than pdmg nodes (because ele dmg on dagger scales similar to wands). But thats not the point.

I played a long time HC, then got bored and played full dmg SC builds and now HC again - i tried a lot of builds - i know there are other auras than hatred/grace. :)
For example i played an ele 2h crit-staff low life leap slammer which was really fun and kind of works a bit similar to an ele wander.

"

qquno wrote:

I am not gonna even reply to other sentences you did, since it based on the nonsense statment what anger/wrath is soft core specific and you need insane end-game tree and insane gear...

And again you didn't understand what i wrote. But well, its always a good tactic in a discussion to find one (in my case rather unimportant) point out of many - focus on that and forget my main point.

By the way - all my calculations are (almost) the same with 3 dmg auras (the main problem is CoE).

My main point :

"

Lowlife CoE is just an amplification towards my damage.

Thats just bullshit. CoE makes %dmg and other wand dmg nodes way less effective. Without CoE the wand nodes are ok - and without insane gear the wand nodes are quite good (assuming you already have enough crit mult).

I'll explain his math about Coe.

With CoE and the best build, you get around 150% increased spell damage, which translates into 150% increased damage for attacks. Because the way increased damage from different sources interacts it's rather useless stacking increased dmg past a point ( going from 0% to 100% increased doubles damage, going from 150 to 250 multiplies it by 1.4).
Without CoE, the character woudn't get that much increased damage "free", so passive points into increased damage would be better that they are now.



That being said I don't agree nor disagree with him as I am not a wander expert by any means. I just wanted to clarify it so people could move on.

I didn't know my elemental wander or burning wander used CoE.

"

Skyforth wrote:

I didn't know my elemental wander or burning wander used CoE.

Should be an insane damage increase though (together with a spell damg wand/shield). Burning wander is a nice idea btw :)

As i already said, CoE is a big problem - but your insane gear is another big problem - because it makes the %dmg nodes less effective (or not needed) - similar to CoE. Play a casual (meaning not full dmg) wander with 1 exalt gear and then 5 exalt gear and you'll see that the passives are quite useful.

Thx for answering all my other points - seems like you don't really want to discuss the topic and admit that your math is flawed/wrong.