Puncture any good ?
" thx, my question was more of a theoretical nature i dont build puncture atm i know playability with that close range mod kills it as main weapon, but thought it might be more dmg than a medium rare bow, maybe even a top end rare bow (i should take a look @ the math but lazy) vs bosses at close range (stacking with passives), also thought about a pvp fun cheap build 1hit n runner (maybe build on standard which i dont play usually but got some chars) €dit: thx for more answers, seems way worse than i thought Last edited by MDGeizt on Apr 18, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
| |
" The Point Blank skill (or gem) can be used with the Chin Sol to give 150% additional damage "up close". Problem is the damage falls off as you get further from the bow user and the damage will fall below "regular damage" at a certain range (half screen or so if I remember right). So the Chin Sol and Point Blank skills have their drawbacks. But I used the Chin Sol and Point blank skill for leveling and they will do some nice damage in their "range" and I must say I do miss that free knock-back. |
|
" lmp/puncture/physical projectile/pierce along with the 35% bow pierce passive actually makes it so I hit way more than just 3 things with LMP being the only thing taking damage away. Pierce was chosen for that very reason, because it increases the number of targets hit without dropping the damage. This is the build I currently have in Standard (which was what I had when I was in Domination League) http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIBr-sB0aJA9PihIsSi3BWn1P7IGf4bAQX5o4qbJujWIuprJF_hlenKj9pk6xSNvwW11CPdqMaiMHFLeDpCsTCGznfU-Va0xcLsC5Ga8QiJkyVdaMEzRwbb54_6STs2e7Sj7Bi00XaCyAynXCQ8Wm1JUc3qUUcwfH8r1op315UF2cYylH8CpuB0QVb6qriqf419_MVnoId2Sn3dDVuvGNutSlKvzSYhdjH6dvfKqTMMGdX_3m_yOdSgn6sLcsPMBjqzXvr8q_BCu-P-ug== Like I said, with relatively crap gear I still can one shot Kole. The bow is nice for having a very nice high crit. With that tree I have a 44% crit rate on my single target puncture. Considering I never focused specifically in crit until I hit my 70s, yet I still one shot almost everything without crits, it's not half bad. This is the path I'm following on Invasion right now. It's not as high level to have all this but this is what I'm shooting for: http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIBr-sB0aJA9PihIsSi3BWn1P7IGf4bAQX5o4qbJujWIuprJF_hlenKj9pk6xSNvwW11CPdqMaiMHFLeDpCsTCGznfU-Va0xcLsC5Ga8QiJkyVdaMEzRwbb54_6STs2e7Sj7Bi00XaCyAynXCQ8Wm1JUc3qUUcwfH8r1op315UF2cYylH8CpuB0QVb6qriqf419_MVnoId2Sn3dDVuvGNutSlKvzSarC3LDzAY6s7vj_rruDiP27_BaSBXwOlgEfocZm40yAbIZz3o= Then I'll start working the crit in as I get higher level - but in Invasion, it's way more important to live than get big crits since if you go this build and something's not immune to curses so you can vulnerability, you're one shotting way more reliably than critting without vulnerability. Since I use Dodge and Spell dodge, my armor is halved so once I have the resistances to support it, I pick up Lightning coil. It's 30% physical damage reduction with maxed lightning resist and if your life is high enough you don't get shocked by pretty much anything. In standard with only 2700 life, cwdt enduring cry, increased duration, immortal call and maxed resists and more movement speed than I could ever want so I can avoid many attacks just by being smart I don't really die unless I'm not paying attenion. Obviously, the Invasion route is more life but it uses the same concept. I have a Rearguard in Invasion (actually that quiver is the whole reason I started playing in Invasion league) and it's some crazy defense on top of the build. Right now, I'm just face tanking everything, including invasion bosses with it because I rarely get hit at all. Also, to note: I have Blood magic connected to faster casting, vulnerability and shockwave totem. I have no mana issues with puncture with 2% mana leech when I do this. Vulnerability casts faster, and Shockwave totem is great for plopping down on casters/archers that don't want to move after I hit them with puncture because it forces the move and kills them - but once you vulnerability and get the dot nodes you're already doing so much damage from the dot that if you're solo you're usually killing targets in one shot even if they don't move because your dot has been increased by that much at higher levels. As for the blood magic on vulnerability and shockwave totem, I grabbed 2% life regen in total from the passive tree which covers that cost since you're never spamming either one. I eventually plan on dropping blood magic when I have sufficient leech from gear to support them in one shot of puncture. Hope that helps. I like my puncture build very much. It also has a good amount of move speed on it with the right gear. You can get so fast at killing, you're actually taking more time to backtrack for drops that you may have missed because you literally one shot everything and it can die off screen while you're killing the next pack. The build levels very quickly if you have the right gear and gems to use right as you level up because that ensures one shots even as soon as you can cast vulnerability. Last edited by PsionicKitten on Apr 18, 2014, 3:43:59 AM
|
|
" thats cool that you're doing it on invasion, since everybody claims evasion builds are not viable on hardcore - which they are wrong about especially with that quiver. anyway just some changes to your tree to consider. if you want to keep some crit chance in your build you could change the tree to look something like this first big change is the king of the hill custer - very terrible cluster that doesn't give you a whole lot for what you invest. plus with no crit chance in your previous tree the pushback on crits isn't even utilized so take that out, go the inner route and you pick up 24% more hp on the way as well as crit. next big change is taking out the DoT passives south tree. again not a great cluster to travel so far to, ending up not getting much in return for the investment. much better spent on other things. the tree i suggest has 242% hp which is pretty good. you could get upwards of 5.4k hp with primo very optimized gears, but 5k would be a more likely number. this is more hp than your current tree proposal has by 20%. not a huuuuuge deal but just showing you you're not losing much by the changes. you will lose the 9% movement speed from the accuracy nodes, but you don't need those accuracy nodes since you already have 60% spec'd, you don't need 96% accuracy. if you don't want to go crit than consider these changes basically just taking out a couple passives here and there and throwing it towards health and stuff. this gives you 270% hp as opposed to 222% which will be a significant different in hp levels. | |
" i did the calculation as to chin sol + point blank vs regular bow plus point blank. i seem to remember that your bow needs to be about 180 dps to be better than chin sol. even self-found, that's not too hard to find. |
|
" It might help a bit if you could see the order I take things in. King of the hill is taken pretty much right before I start adding crit into the build; it's literally the last cluster I take when doing this build. It's much more important to get the consistency of one shotting everything but bosses than getting a higher chance to one shot bosses like Kole. The Stun Recovery node right next to heart of oak isn't very useful for my build, given that I have rearguard that grants 50% stun and block recovery, and I have to take one already to get Heart of Oak so that's a total of 65%. As for the accuracy, I have so much % in Standard mostly because I haven't found an item that gives good accuracy while also having life and resists. I don't think I'd want to give up the move speed and I'd probably drop a 20% node before the 3 speed and accuracy nodes had I ideal gear for the build. The move speed is part of what makes this build so fun and a major defensive point in the build. In merciless it can't tank high damage (face tanks trash just fine), but it can take high damage and run away and be absolutely consistent at surviving. I've leveled a few different characters with this character and I found that the single thing that makes this shine the most about the passive tree is picking up both damage over time nodes. Every other tree was inferior in damage or worked very poorly vs things that didn't move - especially bosses that can't be knocked back or those damn worm things. I have a non-linked poison arrow to drop another DOT on those when they come, and the double dots seems to do much better. Basically, with them, I actually can one shot things even if they stand still which means anything that moves is in for a whole world of hurt. |
|
" yeah- you can get away with 2700 life in standard - but i'd rather not :-) regardless- great build. truly. very efficient. even though you have 81% worth of DoT nodes, I'm still quite surprised that it's that strong. I tried puncture on Kole, but it took a while, but my biggest mistake was not using vulnerability and i was using LMP version of puncture ! But still, it worked... the lightning coil is a nice idea too. One just dropped for me not too long ago, think i'll look at incorporating into my build. |
|
" but looking at your proposed tree, you have ZERO crit added into the build....so... edit: in your invasion build that is " that was a misclick while trying to scroll the tree around, didn't notice it. of course just take that out " especially in standard its very easy to get items with high accuracy, just search poe.xyz and you'll find something cheap and easy. but on the other tree i posted (no crit variant) i kept those accuracy nodes in tact " well you can keep that 2nd DoT cluster if you want, just noting it isn't the most efficient grab especially in invasion where the added HP would be very helpful. and if you run the crit variant, crits on puncture add a LOT more damage over time in the bleed than those DoT passives, so investing those potential 6 points into crit would be more beneficial. anyways GL with your build Last edited by iRace82 on Apr 18, 2014, 4:05:43 PM
| |
" Well, the lightning coil basically makes you effectively have 30% more life vs physical things, so it's like having around 3800 life. It was a way to compensate for not having as much life in the build. Ideally, you'd want both. My Kole one shots are my single target, with vulnerability and I'm pretty sure they are crits, but with a 44% crit rate, it's 1-2 shot consistently then. " I think taking that DOT nodes actually makes the build significantly less reliant on crit. Consistency is more important than spikey damage - which is actually the argument of why Evasion isn't viable in Invasion. Basically anything with Vulnerability on it when hit with puncture will die in 5 seconds unless it has a ridiculous amount of hp (like exiles used to have and I would have to 2 shot them). Crit was actually added in my softcore build to fuel king of the hill because I thought I would need more consistent knockback, which turned out not to be true. Which makes me rethink having crit at all for my hardcore build. I might just want to drop king of the hill all together and grab more path of life nodes. So I appreciate the feedback because while I was thinking I might want to add it in at the end, it may not be worth it. Afterall anything not curse immune is going to die without crits anyway. |
|
|
Puncture hits hilariously hard if you give it generic 'more damage' supports like Trap and Remote Mine. It's like the Five Point Palm technique at the end of Kill Bill - your enemy takes a few steps and then promptly keels over. Of course, the downside is that trap-mines are very awkward to use, and if there are trash mobs around, you often end up 'wasting' the arrow on them. But it's worth considering as a boss-killer. This is how I am using Puncture at the moment, with Poison Arrow trap-mines as my main AoE killer. (I also direct-shoot Puncture at the stragglers, but this isn't so effective as I have not specced for crit.) It seems to be working out so far (Act 2 Merciless), but will have to see how it scales up to maps.
|
|
