Mortal Conviction (and other Reduced Reservations)

"
Irorone wrote:
"
shroudb wrote:
"
Artanthos wrote:

But requires a huge investment in passives. Which is not broken.


sure it requires a huge investment.

but nontheless running:

grace
determination
hatred
anger
wrath
purity of fire
purity of cold
purity of lighting
purity
vitality
haste
discipline
clarity (lol why not, it would just be like 5-10health reserved^^)

for 12% life reserved and having BM passive (so 1 free link on your spell/attack) while retaining:

1.5k ES
130% all res,
87% max res (91% with new nerfed saf's)
~30k armor going up to 90-100k with double flask
about 800 elemental damage /hit and another 65%+ pds as cold (with just a 200dps 2aps weapon you would aready have something like 20k dps with ST)
3%life regen
something like 32% attack +32% cast +18%ms
about 60 mana/sec

for a lvl 80char would be insane.


now imagine you giving those to EVERYONE! good times:P


no, it would be broken :P


First off 30k armor? Last I checked you'd only get about 8k-10k and that's if players are running Iron Reflexes or are ALREADY heavy armor builds most likely buffed by a determination. Second Discipline only gives 318 base energy shield at gem level 20 so I could only see players getting 1.5k from it with buff passives and energy shield passives (again meaning most likely a player is gonna be rocking discipline anyway just not one as powerful as this character's since it's actually speced to be an aura user). The elemental damages are only imbalancing because A: one is percent based increase and that ridiculously improves blender builds as is B: You're counting max damage value from wrath which has a very random damage range C: All elemental damage buffs from the auras can be further buffed by self buff nodes and elemental damage nodes both weapon and non-weapon (which ties back into hatred which is why it's pretty much the only damage aura STILL being used). Haste isn't that powerful for the character in question because it's already sacrificing half its passives speced to be a powerful buffer (again this is more of an issue with just how riculous the base dps is on some blender builds). Vitality's life gen is only about 2.5% for everybody else unless they have self buff passives which isn't even 2 notables % regen for what's normally a 40% aura at gem level 20. Also you're applying shroud's 1%-2% aura figure to ALL the auras which is impossible since it would take 13 slots for all the auras which would require minimum 3 pieces of gear (six slot chest and two four slot items). Finally you try actually improving damage with the remaining 52 or so passive points after sinking the rest into nothing but aura, buff, and basic stat passives without turning into EVEN MORE of a glass cannon against chaos damage or just damage period since after all those passives you'd have to sink at least half of the remaining into defensive passives like ES and Health to survive ANYTHING late game. Sure I could achieve massive damage but I'd basically be running a CI build without the chaos immunity OR energy shield to survive.

The build was intended to be a niche build that would be basically useless solo but powerful in a group of melees and summoners. As it stands that build is impossible to use since I'm getting less than half the intended effects for ALL of the downsides it originally posed. Lvl 48 and running with only about 50 health is bad enough now try doing it with only 3 damage auras (most of which are low integer based values late game), discipline to make it so I can survive SOMETHING, and a 40% aura because that's the only thing left I can fit (and all this while I either use a very, VERY weak attack skill with remaining health pool, or just run around like a movable aura totem and hope nobody kicks me because I'm "doing nothing".


the numbers i've used are from my actual aura build at lvl79.

i have p.e. 4k armor without auras, 26k (i lost some after the patch) with grace+determination

discipline alone gives me about 1k ES

the build has +102% effect on myself and +78% on others.

mortal conviction is 2 skill points away.

trust me, if i could run ALL of my auras full time with only 11% life loss and still gain a gem slot on my attack due to no need for BM gem, i would in a wiff. ANd every party would require to have a free +78% all aura character which would be dump.
On the "every party must have one" there's already several builds that have that moniker already including blenders, summoners, casters, and the occasional curser or tank (have yet to see any builds of note that don't fall at least partially into one of those categories) . So I don't see how adding to that potential bad thing. Also, unless that unique's effect has been changed recently you'd only get 1%-2% on three auras again out of thirteen excluding other reserve skills like tempest shield. You're also including gear values which can varely widely with percent effects that these auras put out. Also you must have a ton of armor nodes if you're getting 22k from grace determination combo. Since most of the naysayers on here have liked to play grammar nazi I might as well give it a shot. Discipline lvl 20 gives 318 BASE energy shield (unless the wiki's wrong) meaning it can be buffed with energy shield passives and the %int bonus so while not impossible you would've had 1.5k energy from it it would mean you would have to have some considerable modifier to get there which I don't have and would have to spend a good chunk of my remaining passives to get.

Excluding gear effects and gem reductions here's what I would've been able to do.
All 13 auras 78% more powerful for allies and 99% more powerful for me.
Still have 14% of max life left over so if I'm careful I can avoid most chaos damage.
Not do crap for damage since EVERYTHING's blood magiced and have almost no direct damage
passives.
Be a powerful buffer that increases a party's all around capabilities (which is currently not
a full on build in use at all).

Here's what I can do with what there is right now.
Run five of the original thirteen auras that I've spent more half the possible passive
points in the game to get.
Have EVEN LESS health to work with blood magic and avoid chaos damage.
Be a mediocre buffer who's usually the brunt of "get some dps noob" idiots who've made the
blender builds so popular.
Have less than half the remaining passive points AT MAX LEVEL to pull the character back up
to a USABLE point.

Here's what I used to do without BM or MC
Run three of the five auras I'm capable of now but without BM making me a glass cannon.
Still have mana so I can easily use skills.

You can disagree with me on the numbers all you want but I'm sacrificing MORE than 85% of my health to run a would be buffer that isn't worth crap unless the auras I'm using happen to fall in line with EVERY SINGLE PARTY MEMBER'S BUILDS. This isn'T like i took CI and BM and said screw it and took eldritch battery to make it so I get one shot by EVERYTHING, I'm using nodes that SHOULD work well together but DON'T.
"
Irorone wrote:
I know what it says doesn't make it any less of a trash node. It's only good if you're gonna bm one aura.


Actually, the main point of Mortal Conviction is for low-life builds. With Mortal Conviction and nothing else, you can use two 60% auras. Add some other mana reduction sources and you can get have several auras up and since your build wants to be at under 35% life anyway, there's no real penalty.
One or two auras maybe but anymore and you risk getting chaos killed like my build.
And also "the no real penalty" thing is bs if you had actually read ANY of my posts talking about how this build was going to run ALL the auras. Had mortal conviction been on the other side of blood magic I wouldn't have room to complain because I'd have all the health and two extra auras. Instead I have almost no health, all my abilities now cost what little remains of it, and I only get two more auras out of the deal without requiring MULTIPLE uniques to function at AGAIN A FRACTION OF WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN.

Screw it I'm done, you guys don't want more build variety? Fine by me I only played PoE this much because it looked more interesting than Diablo 3 and funnily enough it suffers from the same type of characterization problem in the end.
Last edited by Irorone#5725 on Mar 5, 2014, 8:51:27 PM
Maybe the powers that be decided one char running all auras would be a bit much?

Hardly evidence that the game suffers from characterization problems...
I still dont get it. I have mortal conviction and reduced mana gem...When I take out reduced mana gem it says mana reserved is 45% for hatred...this is only 25% less mana used NOT 40% then adding my 74% reduced mana drops it to 33% of my life reserved (which is 74% reduction) This should be 60% by 74%=44.8% then 40% less is 26.88% and if do maths other way 40% less off 60% is 36% times by 74% multiplier and again should be 26.88%. 6% variation might not seem much but out of 4k life thats 240 health.
Phil, you have a support gem linked to your aura that has a mana multiplier of 1.25.
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
"
Makivante wrote:
Maybe the powers that be decided one char running all auras would be a bit much?

Hardly evidence that the game suffers from characterization problems...


After literally months of cooling off I will say this, much of POE does have massive characterization problems, many "niche" builds either take ridiculous amounts of rare uniques to function and can be literally utterly destroyed because of fairly minor changes to functions in game (i.e. this aura build since they DOUBLED the mana reservations for a lot of auras). Not to mention the "hardcore"......people who considered my build overpowered with the use of 2-3 uniques that I haven't seen traded for less than 25 exalts APIECE. The game teases impressive character customization through passives but in fact only a limited few are actually particularly viable.

Finally for those of you who might think my aura build is just too powerful to be put in? Keep in mind the game still has cast on crit, cast on damage taken with enduring cry and immortal call, and a few other "must have character builds" that fair a lot better than this one anyway because I can't CI this build since mortal conviction is on the other side of blood magic. I may not have been able to run all auras but some simple changes would've meant that I could run ENOUGH auras that my character wouldn't be considered for all intents and purposes BRICKED. I'm not sure I'm even gonna come back to change my passives with the forsaken masters free reset if all the niche builds I WANT to play are gonna be screwed around like this. Marvel heroes may not be as deep a game as POE but at least I don't have to farm for days/months to get items necessary for a build only to have it patched into the dirt when people start screaming "OP".
Last edited by Irorone#5725 on Aug 8, 2014, 9:44:36 AM
Don't be bitter. I have a Level 81 Aura aspired Scion which has the same problems. I did not take Blood Magic and Mortal because I don't have decent equipment. She is at best average.

Last edited by Malpheas#7617 on Aug 8, 2014, 11:01:45 AM
"
shroudb wrote:
I have 58% reduced mana reserved without BM and mortal conviction.

If it were reduced instead of less I would have 98%.

This means that 40% auras would reserve 1% health without reduced mana support, and 60% auras would reserve 2% without and 1% with.

Running all auras in the game for 10% of your health would be quite broken.



i would really like to know how you got to 58% reduced mana reserved when the max is 46% from the tree and 8% from alpha's howl
Inundated with cockroaches, I am

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info