Witch Tree Proposals (Semi-Updated July 15.)

I usually play witch and I think the start area for witch is fine.

I play witch with average life, high ES and ES recovery cool down recovery, high mana to have a high AA active, and have some evasion so that the mechanic that between hits and misses my ES will recover full almost.

This is my passive skill tree I usually follow: http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMABAcHYw5IES8RUBGWHNwd2R8CJpUnqSsNLR8tRzgbO-FDVEyzT79QQlVLVyttGW17c1N1in5ZfuJ_xoIQhcWIa4w2mZqio6crtve71sBUwcXB88Nt1AXfsOL344TmfOaB62PsGPF2

I play invasion and hardcore, and I have never have a problem with to low life, it has always been other problems like resistance or stun recovery.

This build is also very open for pure caster or a flicker strike / spectral throw build as you actively will play this to avoid damage.

Thought or comments.

I'm actually surprised more people commentated on the proposed changes.
The lack of talk in the thread kind of got me disappointed and I stopped looking.

Thanks all for the feedback, for both positive and negative.

I didn't intend to create Large changes to the tree (Like adding more circles/nodes), but merely some quality of life pathing changes. I only wanted to focus on the starting circles initially. I guess both of these go hand in hand however.

I'm definitely going to take another look at what was said, and make some changes.
I'll try to post a new layout by the end of the week.

First problem would be the AoE nodes.
This circle was tricky to begin with, and I wanted shorter pathing from entering the circle at the bottom, to exiting the circle at the top. So I made the circle have 5 points versus 7. I could remake the circle again to have 7 points again, but it may be tricky in the overall layout. I have to play around with the design a little.
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"

You've just added more points in the way to get the life nodes for Life based Witches

The left side of the tree, and right side of the tree currently have inconsistent numbers.
You can take 11 points on the left from start to finish, and only 9 points on the right.
I wanted to make both side have consistent 10 points to enter and exit. This is how it is for most other classes. But I refrained from changing the left side because GGG recently tweaked elemental damage numbers, so those still take 11 points to exit.

"

You added an elemental damage node between life nodes, why?

Where? The right side bottom notable is for ES.
The notable life node has elemental resistances, not damage.

I'm also going to focus on the bottom ES notable on the right.
While I think the majority of Witch players take ES some way or another, I'm going to move it so it's not forced to be taken.
The problem is where to put it? And what to replace it with?

Edit:
Currently the Shadow has the highest number of Notables in the inside tree at 12. While other classes have about 8-10.
With my changes, it brings the number for witches to 11.
I had considered adding another notable similar to Secrets of the Order, or Prestidigitation (dayum that's hard to pronounce!). However I'm going to refrain from adding one.

This causes a problem. I cannot move that bottom ES notable for two reasons.
One, because it adds a consistent ES total that is similar to the old tree.
Two, it's a staple node. It connects to 4 different areas.

I have to either replace the node with something else, which forces me to add (move) the notable somewhere different. I don't want to add another notable because GGG might not like the idea of having 12 notables for the inside witch area. (Although templar has 11 and Shadow 12.)

Or, I leave it alone. Which causes people to gripe about it sooner or later.
Now I understand how GGG feels when they have to balance the tree. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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Overall, the changes I'm going to work on:
AoE circle.
Small new life circle.
Moving my ES Notable.
Adding new Elemental Penetration circle (done, in next SS change).
Added new Accuracy circle.
New keystone placement ideas? (between Templar / Witch)
Possibly more Stun Recovery / Block & Stun recovery nodes?
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Edit: OK here is what I've come up with for the AoE circle. (Image below)

It doesn't force people to get the AoE nodes, and it goes back to the old 7 point circle.
The difference is it would take 1 point less to enter/exit the circle...... which isn't that big of a deal IMO. The tradeoff is having this design. I can't think of anything else that works.

Let me know what everyone thinks. This is just a rough layout for now.
http://imgur.com/VsrarGi

edit 2: Better version
http://imgur.com/xenY6HN

I really like the suggested starting area of the witch (especially the reworked life-circles), however it seems a bit overloaded. Maybe moving the Minion circle somewhere else would help?

To move the Mana-Regeneration circle closer to the starting area to provide easier access to the curse-area on the top also seems like a good idea, but Whispers of Doom might be too powerfull and easy to get. Might need some drawback... like expiring more quickly (only 50% duration?), so you would have to take Hex Master as well.

As for Keystones: I do think an Iron Will-Keystone would fit in nicely between the Witch- and Templar-Tree. Not sure what drawback it should have tho, if any at all.

It would be nice to have more Skill Duration passive nodes in witch area.

I felt free and modified your Tree a little further:
http://postimg.org/image/oif4khha1/

The Top part isnt that easy to access anymore (only one additional Skillpoint tho), and nobody would be force to take the Powercharge-Nodes. You can also decide now if you wanna aim for Accuracy or Mana and Mana-Regeneration.

Let me know what you think! (:

It's an interesting idea.

I kind of like it, but it's not practical.

First off, all the other classes have access to the outer tree highway through the charge nodes.

Otherwise, you have two options. Take the long way around, or go through another circle.
It's the same for all classes, not just the Witch. (However the witch still has poor access even through circle nodes / the long way around.)
I don't think they will ever change this, nor do they have a reason to.
Neither will I.

However, I do think I should move the accuracy nodes (or add another) near that spot.
Simply because it's in the middle of all the wand nodes. Location is great.
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What I'm going to focus on now is the right side bottom ES notable.
The one I proposed to have for 10% Max Mana + 10% Max ES.

The only way I'm going to change it, is by moving Deep Wisdom in its place.
Then, I would move my Notable inside the first circle. (Still requiring 6 points to get.)

That means replacing Deep Wisdom with a normal 10 int node. And I'm completely fine with that.

I actually don't understand why they have a Notable on a highway path.
Sure the stats are nice but it's the only one like that in the tree.
It actually makes more since with my tree to move it near the mana circle, which I'm going to do for the next proposal screenshot.

Edit: Updating Screenshots.
Fixed temporary icon for my new flat ES+ES Recovery Node.
Reworked layout for Elemental Damage Circle.
Nodes should now be (10%, 18%, 12%) versus (8%, 15%, 8%, 8%).

Moved Deep Wisdom Notable, replaced with standard Int Node.
Moved my new Notable Mage's Sanctum inside starting circle.
Suggested numbers for Elemental Penetration Circle. (4,4,8)

I fixed it all, Yay! (Puts table back)
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

"

Krinny wrote:

It's an interesting idea.

I kind of like it, but it's not practical.

First off, all the other classes have access to the outer tree highway through the charge nodes.

Otherwise, you have two options. Take the long way around, or go through another circle.
It's the same for all classes, not just the Witch. (However the witch still has poor access even through circle nodes / the long way around.)
I don't think they will ever change this, nor do they have a reason to.
Neither will I.

However, I do think I should move the accuracy nodes (or add another) near that spot.
Simply because it's in the middle of all the wand nodes. Location is great.

I've checked the starting area of other classes, and well... you are right, however as you mentioned, other classes have nicer nodes to access the other circle.
I get your point tho.

As for the last changes (04/27):
- Very nice, I could live with that, but some node are unlikely to change. For example the values of Elemental Damage Nodes (to remove one of those nods is very reasonable tho). Templar and Shadow have the same node-values. I guess they would either change all or none.

- The other thing is start of the right wing. In other trees there is a fork after the 2nd Node. In yours, the fork happens at the 3rd Node. Not sure if that's gonna be a problem tho. Just wanted to mention it.

"

NewReno wrote:

In other trees there is a fork after the 2nd Node. In yours, the fork happens at the 3rd Node

Yeah I know about this.

In my original original proposal, I had change this bottom right circle to have 6 nodes. I think.
But I don't think I had them branching into the blast radius circle as I do now.

I'll have to change that later, but I don't know what I would put on either side.
The left side could be %mana and %mana regen.
The right side has to include the 12% hybrid node, and something else.

I don't like adding life nodes, but that could be a fallback option.
I really don't know what to put there.

For now I think it's fine, but I'm going to flesh out what to put there later.

I also wanted to focus on the Int node that travels into the power charge nodes.
With my changes it does go into the mana nodes, but I feel there is space potential next to the Wand nodes and Lightning Nodes on either side.
I wouldn't know what to add in this small spot anyway.

Having moved the mana circle, the middle section seems very open, and under used currently.
I would really, REALLY love for Witches to get some type of nodes regarding Staffs. Something that gives them Spell damage nodes while using staffs, and possibly other utlility and defenses.

Staffs are one of the few options, if not the only option, to acquiring a potential second 6link ability.
Staffs are tedious and hard to craft, like daggers or scepters. I think they can improve this aspect as well. They would have to make certain staffs roll certain modes easier than others. Which would be respective toward melee or spell casting.

I don't have enough time this weekend to work on anything, but I'll try to do something next week.

Updated for June 4th.

Probably last update for a while.
Going to be out of state for about 3-4 months, will not have access to photoshop.

Reworked the Right starting circle.
Now has 6 nodes + Notable.
Left side: 10% Max Mana, 20% Mana Regen, 10% Max Mana.
Right Side: flat 15 Life+Mana, %Hybrid Node, flat 15 Life+Mana.

This keeps the original hybrid node, removes the other int+mana node I proposed for the time being, and adds a little more max mana.

I went with flat life+mana because I really don't know what else to add. For 2 points, getting 30 life and mana isn't great but it's better than nothing.
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I was considering adding nodes reduced mana cost of skills here, but I decided not to.

I have added, for a future update, a reduced mana circle on the right side of the tree.
It will have a total of 25% reduced mana cost of skills, 5 nodes total. (4 + Notable).
3%, 3%, 3%, 6%, 10%
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I've reverted the changes for the curse keystones.
Reason is because GGG can decide to balance it themselves.
I think my layout isn't bad, but because the current keystones have zero drawbacks. I reverted the change because of the overpowered utility they provide.

If they decide to add some drawback, I'm fine re-adding my proposed changes.

Also the change kind of goes against my original ideas here. I don't want the thread to be about balancing keystones.

For now, I think all the changes I've proposed are good enough.
Further discussion and feedback would be appreciated.

First, go read this thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/962020
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Still no access to photoshop at the moment, but still working on new changes!

I'm going to use NewReno's idea of an Accuracy cluster, probably.

After reading some more threads on the forums, there are still issues with Witch area that need to be looked at. We have gotten practically ZERO feedback from GGG on ANY changes to the Witch area..... or any other class for that matter.

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With that said, I'm going to be doing a whole new complete layout change.
Rough Layout Screenshot: http://postimg.org/image/fp7arer0l/

What I'm going to do is mirror the layout, and make sure the point efficiency is equal on either side of the Witch Tree. That means equal distance to the top tree from either side, starting from the base of the power charge node.
Right now it should be 12 points from the left, and 7 on the right. This is going to change to 7-8 nodes on both sides.

From here, I'm going to ask some practical questions.
"Is this circle really needed? What is it used with? Is it point efficient? Can it be condensed?" etc.

I'm going to be able to fit about 5 medium sized circles in each section, maybe 6 if I squeeze the spacing around.

Then on the outer clusters, much like Flaying / Nightstalker Dagger circle, I'm going to have 1-2 medium sized circles, and probably one small.

Then where Throatseeker critical cluster is, and mirrored on the other side, I'm going to have about 2-3 small circles.

I'm also going to utilize the space on the very outside, like the volitile mines cluster, in order to add 1-2 more medium sized circles.

I'm going to shift around the curse keystones, and make room for another keystone slot.
There is also going to be a new Keystone slot near Minion Instability.

Then I'm going to work on adjusting the tree to accommodate multiple changes such as:
Critical Strike chance & multiplier, point efficiency, Reduced Mana Cost, Accuracy, and Mana Regen.
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Right now I got a base outline for the new tree, and I can post a very rough mockup later.
Some may think there are a lot of circles.... too many.... but that's okay. I can always remove a few as needed. This gives me a general blueprint to use.

I still need to figure out what circles are going to go where, whats going to get moved, whats going to get removed, whats going to get added, etc....

I'm still working on changes, even if nobody is discussing or watching....
(╯ಠ益ಠ)╯︵ ┻━┻ ....... ಥ_ಥ