[Build Idea] Chaos damage Build (with Flameblast)

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Kenzorz wrote:

By the way, Flameblast has 50% damage effectiveness.

i.e. Lvl 20 Added Chaos damage will have an average base damage of (161+242)/4 = ~100

Flameblast has a very fast cast time, though, which makes up for it considerably.
0.3s per cast, so it's equivalent to an 0.6s spell with 100% DE. Freeze pulse has 0.65s, so it's better than freeze pusle for this build (not to mention the AoE is much better).

The OP should note though that Storm call has an 0.5s base cast time, so it is the most effective skill in terms of getting value from added dmg gems. But again, its AoE is much smaller - so there's the trade-off there.

But no skill except storm call is better than flameblast for taking advantage of added dmg gems. (Except spark if you are shotgunning a single target with all 3 projectiles.)

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Grughal wrote:

I heard a totem with Flame Blast never actually fires it off. It just keeps channeling and channeling...

When the totem dies it will go off. so just cast a new totem or weapon switch etc...

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Sachiru wrote:

Considering that your goal is to use Flameblast as a delivery mechanism for Chaos Damage, a few insights:

1) Faster Casting is better than larger area - The default area is large enough, and Concentrated Effect being a More multiplier makes it suboptimal. Instead of increasing the multiplier, it's best if you increase the BASE. 10 times zero is still zero, but 10 times 1000 is ten thousand, and if you regularly deliver that kind of damage every second, it's better than delivering 11k damage every 4 seconds, if you get what I mean.

Nope, different sources of "MORE" damage are NOT additive, they are multiplicative. The 69% MORE damage from Conc Effect is EXACTLY 990*1.69, not 990+69. (assuming 990% MORE is the max you get from flameblast)

Go try it out in-game. Get some random melee weapon skill, put in Melee Physical Damage gem, then add in Melee Damage on Full Life.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Kenzorz wrote:

By the way, Flameblast has 50% damage effectiveness.

i.e. Lvl 20 Added Chaos damage will have an average base damage of (161+242)/4 = ~100

Flameblast has a very fast cast time, though, which makes up for it considerably.
0.3s per cast, so it's equivalent to an 0.6s spell with 100% DE. Freeze pulse has 0.65s, so it's better than freeze pusle for this build (not to mention the AoE is much better).

With FP you can half the damage with GMP and shotgun it for a total of 250% DE (50%*5).

So your actual comparison would be 0.6s flameblast with 105% DE (50*[1+1.1]) 177.45% DE (50*[1+1.1]*1.69) vs 0.65s freezing pulse with 250% DE.

-sorry, double post, please delete.-

Very interesting build idea :) will probably try it or a similar one, and use a few sinergetic uniques like Deaths Oath or the lkke budget permitting. Maximizing area damage is not that hard, you can get up to 54% from the tree, and its not that hard anymore thanks to scion.
This Chaos Flameblast build would be a tree based on getting max Area radius and damage and also chaos damage.
CI seems to be the most mogical choice.. but life based could be an option as you already are getting 17% chaos res.
Then you would need a second source of damage against chaos reistance mobs, but then havin a leveled Flameblast could work too... what I am uncertain of is the single target spell...

I had a totem templar which I then respecced to Flameblast templar. I could try the flameblast + added chaos combination. I'll have to look for a lvl1 flameblast gem though and level up the added chaos dmg.

Templar build atm, I might respec few points more and if the chaos dmg tactic is good, I'll ditch the fire damage nodes too.

The dps of this build will be pretty awful.

Damage effectiveness of Flameblast is 50%, which means added damage only does half damage per hit.

A level 20 added chaos that is 80-121 per 0.3 seconds for the first cast and 88-133 for every additional stack up to 10.

Assuming a 10 stack cast (which is the highest potential dps) that is 792-1198 damage for a 3 second cast. In other words 321dps.

That is pathetic...

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Kazang wrote:

The dps of this build will be pretty awful.

Damage effectiveness of Flameblast is 50%, which means added damage only does half damage per hit.

A level 20 added chaos that is 80-121 per 0.3 seconds for the first cast and 88-133 for every additional stack up to 10.

Assuming a 10 stack cast (which is the highest potential dps) that is 792-1198 damage for a 3 second cast. In other words 321dps.

That is pathetic...

That is the base DPS. Add in cast speed/spell/area/chaos damage passives and conc effect. Could also try scaling it with crit, but the nature of the skill doesn't seem that great for that.

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Kazang wrote:

The dps of this build will be pretty awful.

Damage effectiveness of Flameblast is 50%, which means added damage only does half damage per hit.

A level 20 added chaos that is 80-121 per 0.3 seconds for the first cast and 88-133 for every additional stack up to 10.

Assuming a 10 stack cast (which is the highest potential dps) that is 792-1198 damage for a 3 second cast. In other words 321dps.

That is pathetic...

It is indeed awful if we chose to not get any cast speed or spell damage nodes, did not use the faster casting or concentrated AoE support gems, and did not get anything similar for equipment.

"More" modifiers from separate sources stack multiplicatively. That means using a low-life Righteous Fire build with Pain Attunement, then slapping a concentrated area of effect gem on this provides silly-amounts of more damage before adding on any base damage.


While I'm not using this chaos build (I'd rather go the elemental pathway, safer to level with), the end-damage is roughly the same:

9.9 * 1.69 * 1.3 * 1.59 equates to roughly 35.58 times the listed damage non-crit.

Assuming the player does not get any increased area damage, increased spell damage, or increased chaos damage, it would still deal ~3500 chaos per charged cast, which with faster casting+haste, one can easily reach a 1.5 second delay to full charge with no item or passive investment beyond what's required to sustain a low-life RF build.

I do believe this build would function just fine.

So is a crit-based build with this skill bad? If yes, what makes it so? I don't have much experience with spell-based builds but would trading cast speed / survivability for crit/spell damage/IIQ/ and being a hybrid summoner and party player not work? How would the damage be with ok gear on this build

would run skel totem, minions, crit power gen ice spear or culling IIQ, auras, chaosblast, CwDT.

Also not really sure how Infernal Mantle works, would it be the item for this build or is Voll's Protector necessary even though power charge on critical exists?

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Zealflare wrote:

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Kenzorz wrote:

By the way, Flameblast has 50% damage effectiveness.

i.e. Lvl 20 Added Chaos damage will have an average base damage of (161+242)/4 = ~100

Flameblast has a very fast cast time, though, which makes up for it considerably.
0.3s per cast, so it's equivalent to an 0.6s spell with 100% DE. Freeze pulse has 0.65s, so it's better than freeze pusle for this build (not to mention the AoE is much better).

With FP you can half the damage with GMP and shotgun it for a total of 250% DE (50%*5).

So your actual comparison would be 0.6s flameblast with 105% DE (50*[1+1.1]) vs 0.65s freezing pulse with 250% DE.

That's disingenuous. With flameblast you can use dps multiplier gems too, for example concentrated effect. You can't compare FP supported with an unsupported flameblast and expect it to be a fair comparison.