Biggest Problem with Mapping: Inconsistent Risk to Reward

We need a major patch focused on the risk-reward of map affixes. Improvements I'd like include bonuses for particularly dangerous combos (i.e. elemental weakness and -% max res), the removal of obligatory affixes (like maze), and affixes that target the strengths and weaknesses of particular builds to encourage build parity.

Map affix parity is important because it improves the variety of maps players are willing to run and also discourages the map currency sink which, in my opinion, is harmful to the game. Specifically, the high map currency sink undermines the original purpose of currency that is to craft gear, and worse it undermines the original purpose of mapping which is to acquire better loot/wealth. It also poses a needless economic barrier to progression and encourages a miserly attitude to wealth accumulation and trading compared to Diablo 2. I'm sure GGG has a good reason for changing the focus of maps from loot to experience but I don't know what it is.

As an aside I don't think map exclusive items are necessarily bad but when gated behind what is essentially an in game wealth barrier it undermines a player's sense of progression and expectation. The best possible rares and craft bases being exclusive to maps is fine but arbitrarily keeping uniques in maps feels disingenuous. It seems GGG recognizes that to a small extent because they've restored the ability to chance the best uniques. Still, I don't think we need to waffle - if the base item of a unique drops somewhere then the unique should drop too. We don't need MMO style loot exclusivity to encourage mapping, just remove/diminish the existing economic barrier.

I think it's very important that the game encourages build diversity and build parity instead of merely nerfing the most popular builds which instead results in new most popular builds and a feeling of being undermined. That can be achieved by creating encounters that favor or challenge certain builds. Interesting and different mobs can provide those encounters, to a degree, but I'm not sure that's enough. Troublesome mobs can be circumvented and those that cannot act as build funnels, which is the opposite of what we want. Admittedly, GGG has made a tremendous effort to increase encounter variety in storymode and for that I commend them.

The most powerful builds are defined by map versatility so why not directly address that versatility instead of indirectly through balance and mechanic changes? The best way I've heard to encourage build parity would be through map affixes that favor or challenge specific builds. To clarify, when I say challenge I do not mean prohibit. Blood Magic prohibits CI builds. We don't need more prohibitive map affixes, that does not create a choice dilemma and is not fun. We want affixes that favor some and challenge others.

What we need are affixes like decreased maximum charges, reduced ES/AR/EV, reduced minion/totem damage, increased mana costs, monster projectiles are guided, monsters teleport, etc. While I think general affixes like -%max res are good, for a challenge, we need affixes that target the specifics of builds in order to create parity and encourage diversity. With affixes favoring and challenging specific builds players will have no choice but to run diverse map groups or suffer inefficiency. Solo players too will either have to reroll maps, trade for more favorable maps or switch characters for maximum efficiency. In this way the pressure for parity will be an economic one and self regulating, instead of merely a function of GGG's nerf bat.

The map affixes have been broken since the start and no improvements have been made since mildly increasing quantity of some affixes.

Right now the only rule in rolling maps is to 1) spam chaos until maze 2) spam chaos until high quantity.

A mazed 120Q 50 packsize map will possibly not drop anything. A 50Q random map drops 6. There is almost no correlation betwen the mods on a map and what it drops other than maze. This disconnect makes it so the map affixes are completely irrelevant in terms of reward but very much so in terms of risk. Thus you will have players burning chaos for pack size or map instead of actually trying hard maps.

-Remove maze from the game , increase all map base size accordinly
-rescale chance to drop map based on quantity - i,e 100 quantity has a 70% chance to drop any single map, 110 has a 90% chance, 120%+ has a 100% chance. Pack size is enough of a reward on its own based solely on the extra exp.

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This is honestly a pretty good post in terms of its subject matter, but the reality is that mapping successfully isn't as hard as people make it out to be.

This isn't a game about twitch-reflex skill or anything, this game is about thinking ahead, planning properly, and being creative. Mapping follows the same general theme in that benefitting the most from maps requires attention and management. You weigh out your options and run maps that you can reasonably afford rather than brute-forcing maze on every single temple or necropolis you find. And this option weighing is really a huge part of what makes this game fun. You don't get a straight forward progression all the time, but that's okay. It's that slot machine effect that really keeps you playing.

Don't get me wrong, I think this post is great for bringing up an honest opinion that a lot of people probably agree with. But I have to humbly disagree.

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Nephalim wrote:

The map affixes have been broken since the start and no improvements have been made since mildly increasing quantity of some affixes.

Right now the only rule in rolling maps is to 1) spam chaos until maze 2) spam chaos until high quantity.

A mazed 120Q 50 packsize map will possibly not drop anything. A 50Q random map drops 6. There is almost no correlation betwen the mods on a map and what it drops other than maze. This disconnect makes it so the map affixes are completely irrelevant in terms of reward but very much so in terms of risk. Thus you will have players burning chaos for pack size or map instead of actually trying hard maps.

-Remove maze from the game , increase all map base size accordinly
-rescale chance to drop map based on quantity - i,e 100 quantity has a 70% chance to drop any single map, 110 has a 90% chance, 120%+ has a 100% chance. Pack size is enough of a reward on its own based solely on the extra exp.

I've lost count of the amount of times I made those suggestions.

Have to agree with Nephalim and SL4Y3R.

@JahIthBer89

That's fair. At a certain point we have to ask what the design purpose of mapping is. That's what I'm sort of confused about. If we want to encourage meaningful choice and variety in what maps we run then the disconnect between risk and reward seems somewhat counterproductive. If it's about item/wealth acquisition then the high economic barrier is counterproductive. Again, I'm sure GGG has good reasons for why they do what they do, I just haven't heard what they are.

This post from Chris is where my understanding of the mapping system's design stems from. Nowhere does it mention wealth as an obstacle to progression or an emphasis on experience over wealth acquisition.

Variety is good unless its the map affix.

This whole game is based on RNG, if u cant handle it u gotta leave with your head down. U lucky u will find Kaom at piety lunaris. U not? U will never find it. Same with maps.

bump

OP has some good suggestions, but I'd like to point out that the majority of my map parties on SC would roll for quantity/maze and run it regardless of whether the mods were easy or hard. Any such "gating" would adversely affect, not me and mine, but up-and-coming new mappers who can't afford to buy faceroll gear to work around or just steamroll harder affixes.

I mean yeah, if you make a CI build, you accept that you don't run BM maps. Ditto the EB/regen stacking trappers and stasis maps, for the most part. Etc. But it should never reach a point where one has to trade or reroll more than a very few maps because his build cannot handle it.