Biggest Problem with Mapping: Inconsistent Risk to Reward

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Nephalim wrote:

Obviously its small sample size but from having done maps for a long time it feels like there is almost no correlation between map drop and quantity. Sometimes I wonder if it even does anything other than clog up the screen.

Dude what do you think the base drop rate for maps is?

We will say 1%(way high) for the sake of argument. If you roll a 150% map, way high again, you will only see a 1.5% chance increase? Do you really think you would notice a 1.5% increase(in reality much less than this number) without taking real data?

The mind is quite easily fooled. Before you claim the entire end game system is broke, it is probably better to have something more solid than a "feeling".

Sure you have more experience doing maps then I do, but I have no reason to believe your "feelings".

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Delmas wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Obviously its small sample size but from having done maps for a long time it feels like there is almost no correlation between map drop and quantity. Sometimes I wonder if it even does anything other than clog up the screen.

Dude what do you think the base drop rate for maps is?

We will say 1%(way high) for the sake of argument. If you roll a 150% map, way high again, you will only see a 1.5% chance increase? Do you really think you would notice a 1.5% increase(in reality much less than this number) without taking real data?

The mind is quite easily fooled. Before you claim the entire end game system is broke, it is probably better to have something more solid than a "feeling".

Sure you have more experience doing maps then I do, but I have no reason to believe your "feelings".

so you think a white map has less than a 1% chance to drop a map, brilliant bases of thought.

Observations over a long period time is certainly more substantial in your blind faith that GGG is meaningfully scaling quantity vs map drop and if you ask most people in the top 150 of the ladder they will say the same.

GGG has never told us how much quantity affects map drops, only that they do. So yes, the difference could so unbelievably minuscule that it is not even worth expending extra chaos orbs to get that extra quantity or packsize.

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Veta321 wrote:

I don't mind map progress without guarantee. It keeps things from being merely a time investment and more gratifying when you do progress.

The fact that it is not a guarantee to progress just makes it a longer time investment. You now need to account for the time mapping, the time to make the currency to roll maps, and the time you need to invest to do it all over when RNG screws you over. So instead of spending time doing something fun like mapping you must farm a ton to map properly, or do like a lot of people and RMT so you can run endless 75+ maps. At least the recent map drop increase is a huge step in the right direction though.

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Midnitecloud wrote:

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Veta321 wrote:

I don't mind map progress without guarantee. It keeps things from being merely a time investment and more gratifying when you do progress.

The fact that it is not a guarantee to progress just makes it a longer time investment. You now need to account for the time mapping, the time to make the currency to roll maps, and the time you need to invest to do it all over when RNG screws you over. So instead of spending time doing something fun like mapping you must farm a ton to map properly, or do like a lot of people and RMT so you can run endless 75+ maps. At least the recent map drop increase is a huge step in the right direction though.

the global map drop rates do not and should not be increased, this is the wrong direction. I think the point is that for remarkably hard maps with impossibly dangerous affix combinations should have a bigger effect on the amount of maps that drop and maze should no longer be a requirement.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Delmas wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Obviously its small sample size but from having done maps for a long time it feels like there is almost no correlation between map drop and quantity. Sometimes I wonder if it even does anything other than clog up the screen.

Dude what do you think the base drop rate for maps is?

We will say 1%(way high) for the sake of argument. If you roll a 150% map, way high again, you will only see a 1.5% chance increase? Do you really think you would notice a 1.5% increase(in reality much less than this number) without taking real data?

The mind is quite easily fooled. Before you claim the entire end game system is broke, it is probably better to have something more solid than a "feeling".

Sure you have more experience doing maps then I do, but I have no reason to believe your "feelings".

so you think a white map has less than a 1% chance to drop a map, brilliant bases of thought.

Observations over a long period time is certainly more substantial in your blind faith that GGG is meaningfully scaling quantity vs map drop and if you ask most people in the top 150 of the ladder they will say the same.

GGG has never told us how much quantity affects map drops, only that they do. So yes, the difference could so unbelievably minuscule that it is not even worth expending extra chaos orbs to get that extra quantity or packsize.

Lol you can't be serious? Who in gods name speaks of drop rates per area? So you think larger areas have better drop rates? Pretty hilarious.

Secondly "blind faith" is ridiculous. Games have been using magic find and other drop rate manipulators for years and years. If you new a fucking thing about programming you would know programming simple algorithms to control drop rates is not difficult. Why lie?

Lastly, Every high end group continues to roll maps with chaos/exalt and continues to buy chisels. It would seem your "feeling" is the minority.

Do you have any evidence for your statements?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

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Lol you can't be serious? Who in gods name speaks of drop rates per area? So you think larger areas have better drop rates? Pretty hilarious.

Secondly "blind faith" is ridiculous. Games have been using magic find and other drop rate manipulators for years and years. If you new a fucking thing about programming you would know programming simple algorithms to control drop rates is not difficult. Why lie?

Lastly, Every high end group continues to roll maps with chaos/exalt and continues to buy chisels. It would seem your "feeling" is the minority.

Do you have any evidence for your statements?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Anyone who exalts a map for any reason other than a lapse in judgement or boredom is an idiot. Please stop speaking out of your ass.
Can you specifically name these people in these "high end groups" you seem to be so familiar with? Even a single name of a single person of a single group who shares your sunny outlook on the current state of the mapping system and uses exalts on maps


I think you missed the point entirely. I am not saying GGG lied and that quantity has no effect on map drops, I am saying the increase to map drops that quantity provides is too small to justify the chaos orbs or risk and instead of having a meaningful map affix pool, you have roll till you get the first maze mentality.

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Nephalim wrote:

Anyone who exalts a map for any reason other than a lapse in judgement or boredom is an idiot. Please stop speaking out of your ass.
Can you specifically name these people in these "high end groups" you seem to be so familiar with? Even a single name of a single person of a single group who shares your sunny outlook on the current state of the mapping system and uses exalts on maps

Here are 66 pages of documentation that would suggest you are horribly unjustified in your beliefs.

And it should be noted that maze is not the best prefix for all maps. I now suspect your beliefs may be a byproduct of you rolling your maps poorly.

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Delmas wrote:

And it should be noted that maze is not the best prefix for all maps. I now suspect your beliefs may be a byproduct of you rolling your maps poorly.

I am confounded as to how i managed to spend 2 pages debating with someone who has utterly not a clue about high level mapping or the current state of the game.

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Nephalim wrote:

the global map drop rates do not and should not be increased, this is the wrong direction. I think the point is that for remarkably hard maps with impossibly dangerous affix combinations should have a bigger effect on the amount of maps that drop and maze should no longer be a requirement.

Why should the barrier to the content be cost and not difficulty? I don't think blue maps should have a good drop rate but its insane to want 76+ maps to cost several exalts to even have a chance to drop a better map. RNG and currency should not be what stops people from doing content.

In my opinion I would rather maps be based on how well your character does in them, and skill of being able to complete them rather than who has the best rng/who has the most currency to blow on them/or who rmt's the most.

I think having them the way they are now turns down a lot of players from even attempting 70+ maps, especially solo players. It's near impossible for a solo player to sustain these maps without first acquiring an insane amount of currency to run them. I've blown 3+ exalts a day doing maps as a solo player and had terrible map rng multiple times, and its really disheartning when this happens to you.

I just don't like the idea of having to invest currency to level up past a certain point, but I know this will probably never change as its a core part of the game.