Game is too easy? Not complex enough.

"

GueulEclator wrote:

All I'm saying, is that this game needs more challenge, and more skills.

I agree with your general point, and with this specifically.

I played PoE quite a lot for a while but I feel like it gradually stopped being interesting, exciting or worth playing.

Hopefully that will change when the final wipe happens, but the combat isn't anywhere near viscerally satisfying or diverse enough to keep me in the game as it is.

Someone please go into more detail about the viscerally satisfying or diverse comment. Besides the game needing some more active skills, specifically melee skills, I don't really understand what people are saying here.

"

Someone please go into more detail about the viscerally satisfying or diverse comment. Besides the game needing some more active skills, specifically melee skills, I don't really understand what people are saying here.

I can't speak directly for the poster of the phrase, but I am a someone who can explain the answer, but if I don't write what the poster actually meant then I apologise, but the words he used are a short-hand way of saying the following:

Monsters tend to come in uniform waves throughout the game and, even when you are fighting different 'looking' monsters, they all still behave in very similar ways.

There will be the first wave - the dead meat. This might be Human club wielders or Zombies or wandering Skeletons or Alien Squids or Green Ghosts or Giant Spiders or Bears or little Monkeys but whatever they are, they're just a wave of dead meat.

There will then be a second wave behind the first wave which will consist of Ranged attack such as Human Archers or Skeleton Archers or Skeleton Mages or Lamb Casters or exploding Humans or Exploding Alien Squids or Snakes or Green Pelicans or Flaming Dogs, but they are all still Ranged attackers behind the meat pile.

Then, every now and then one of these packs will have a captain who will be a suped up version of one of the above list, adding some aura or other such as Big Monkeys or big Archers or big Skeletons etc.

At some point in the level there will be the level Boss, the Unique monster, who will use attacks no-one else uses and is likely the biggest threat on the level.

This process is fairly standard for RPGs, but not normally quite so repetitive.

Some creatures which stand out as being a change to the routine are monsters like the Necromancers who suddenly offer you a completely different dynamic. Another different dynamic is the Flicker attacks from the black Pirates. However, both these interesting types are then over used so we find Necromancers in too many places and we also have Flickering Spiders and the Bandit Boss.

A more viscerally satisfying and diverse landscape is one where each particular area has creatures that not only fit that area (which this game does really well) but offer different and unique challenges dependent on that area. For example:

I shall once again use Icewind Dale as an example (not because I just like bleating on about it, but because it's the RPG I have the most experience with):

In one level of Dragon's Eye, your first proper dungeon crawl in the game after all the introductory bits and pieces and the easy Skeletons etc you will find:

1. Trolls. Big green monsters who pack a meaty punch but look like dead meat, only to catch the player unaware as they rise from the dead with Trollish regeneration. Killing them out-right requires either a fire or acid attack plus a lucky roll. Though they can also be killed with a very strong Critical or exploded with an Ice attack.

2. Spiders of varying types. Mean, ugly, nasty looking little creepies with more legs than body and a hellova quick attack.

3. Beetles which, again, look quite easy but in reality deliver a really noxious gas.

4. A group of Human Clerics who have some Trolls under their spell who are holding the local villagers prisoner. They cast all kind of spells, most of which are extremely hazardous.

And all these monsters have their own place within the level. It's not like a maze, it's an actual living and breathing place where life goes on, and looks like it's gone on for thousands of years, Trolls hunting for Spiders, Spiders hunting for Beetles etc. It's a cave system rather than a man-made maze structure which men have since found and adapted.

So, likewise, the environment does not differ wildly in PoE, it's either up top on plains/deserts or forest/Jungle or down below in a rocky maze or building which looks like it's been designed solely for monsters to wander about in with no objective and no reason. Sometimes even the forest is a cave-like maze! The nicely unique areas which hold visual diversity would be the Ship's Graveyard and, to a certain extent, the Pyramid (though it would be nice of the impression of the building getting dramatically smaller at each level was more so) and Fellshrine up top. But mostly, the game gives the player the 'haven't I been here before?' feeling rather than 'oh yes, that area, that area was so unique!' memorability factor.

These are all factors in replayability.

"

Never_nou wrote:

==Stuff I agree with==

Very well put.

It just doesn't have the "feel" or "X-factor" that keeps me coming back to a game for a long time.

I think if I had to put my finger on the exact causes I'd say that combat feels too wooden - nowhere near "slick" enough - and that despite the geography of maps being well randomized, everything is too "the same". There aren't enough surprises and the monsters are too dumb. They don't screw with you or try to outwit you. The rare spawns don't really feel like you have to figure out how to deal with them. They just show up and you basically batter them to death, but they're harder than regular spawns. I'm sure people will say "It's an ARPG. This is just how these games are", but it's not 1999 any more and there's too much choice in the gaming arena to deliver what amounts to a very interesting framework (skilldrasil) that holds up a pretty simplistic and repetitive core gameplay experience.

I don't want to rag on this game because I've enjoyed it up to a point, but I think a large part of it's appeal is the "I'm supporting the little guy developers" vibe and that's not gonna make it a success in the long run.

As I said before, maybe the dynamic of the game will change at open beta and enough people will become obsessed with obtaining gear to ignore what I consider the hollow feel of the core game.

Can't relate with those issues. Combat feels fine to me. I am sure they are adding in new creatures to decimate. Was Icewind Dale 1 different than 2? I can't see comparing these games to Path of Exile. May as well compare Path of Exile to halo.

Yes, 1 was different to 2, but not massively. Like all sequels it lacked a bit of the exact polish of the first but 2 still had a lot of variety and still offered the player some really hardcore challenges.

But you are right, it's not comparable to PoE, but that's because it's primarily a stand alone individual off-line game rather than an MMO and no MMO will ever be like Icewind Dale.

But as I said, I only use Icewind Dale as an example of the issues raised, not because I want PoE to be like Icewind Dale. I want PoE to be like PoE, it's own unique brand of ARPG, which, as has been stated, it's well on the way to being.

But no, it's not at all like comparing PoE to Halo and the fact that you can't even relate to anything mentioned kind of blows my mind a bit so I have no idea how to proceed with the point any further with regards to responding to your posts. As Kaiji said, maybe enough people will be able to simply rely on the other hooks in the game, such as yourself, but, as evidenced by Kaiji, I guess some wont.

Well I expect POE to continue to only get better. The devs appear to want to work on it a long time and they are a very small team so I am sure they have a lot of ideas to implement that they just can't get to. A dev mentioned recently really wanting to put random quest encounters into the game, which I would love to see.

Agree with Never_nou, those mobs don't encourage players to play again next difficulties, most of the time they just play for complete his builds or do maps other than enjoy playing the game itself.

In my opinion this subject should be one bigger thing to improve.

Mob diversity.

"

2i0 wrote:

Agree with Never_nou, those mobs don't encourage players to play again next difficulties, most of the time they just play for complete his builds or do maps other than enjoy playing the game itself.

In my opinion this subject should be one bigger thing to improve.

Mob diversity.

Never_nou also triggered me in believing that the predictability of mobs is too high. It would become more challenging if mobs would behave in another way than expected and if you really have to read the text beneath there health bar explaining the abilities of the mob.

Right now as soon as you see a mob, you know how it behaves and how to deal with it. This makes areas, even as random as they are now, very predictable and repetitive.

It would be a lot more challenging and fun if mobs have individual abilities and that the same type of mob can have completely different abilities. An exploding ape or a zombie that does chaos damage. Just mix the abilities and players can never take a mob for granted anymore.

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GueulEclator wrote:

Then how is it a hardcore gamer game? I Donated for this game because it advertised as such, and I really believed it was made by some hardcore gamer enthusiast team.

Now I have more and more the feeling that this is a casual game for casual gamer. And it's a dark and gritty version of farmville.
My sister that only play facebook games managed to beat act 2.

This game = casual game. Once you get the good build (or copy paste it from the forum) all you have to do is mindless hacking for hours.

maybe a bit off topic but: This game can't be boring or bad if your Sister, who supposedly only has the attention span for facebook games, can stick to it and even beat act 2^^