Glacial Hammer + Avatar of Fire + Cold to Fire

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DaveSW wrote:

Why are people arguing this when Facebreaker doesn't work with Glacial Hammer? Infernal Blow is the only way to go.

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HexenLord wrote:

I did these calcs based on 461 average physical damage (with a 2H weapon, after factoring in strength bonuses). Not going to link the build since its going to get changed with the new skill tree changes anyway. Like I said, all cold damage modifiers act as one large 'More' multiplier at the end of the conversions.

This is all based on the assumption that each damage type has all of its bonuses applied BEFORE being converted to the next damage type. None of these conversions factor in attack speed in any way.

Glacial Hammer Linked with Melee Physical Damage, Weapon Elemental Damage (Melee Splash, Multistrike, Fire Penetration do not count towards these factors).
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Physical Damage


461 Base Damage.
268.4% increased physical damage from all passives (2H, Weapon Type, Melee Physical, etc).
-Equals 1698.324 Physical Damage.
Factor in 49% MORE bonus with Melee Physical Damage
--Equals 2530.5 Physical Damage.

50% of this is converted to fire.
50% of this is converted to cold.


Cold Damage
50% of original 2530.5 physical damage.

1265.25 Base Cold Damage
81% Increased Cold Damage from Passives (combo of +% Elemental Damage and +% Cold Damage)
-Equals 2290.1025 Cold Damage.
Factor in 80% More bonus with Weapon Elemental Damage
--Equals 4122.1845 Cold Damage.

100% of this is converted to fire.


Fire Damage
1265.25 Physical Damage was converted straight to fire.
4122.1845 Cold Damage was converted to fire.

5387.4 Base Fire Damage
153% Increased Fire Damage from Passives (combo of +% Elemental Damage and +% Fire Damage)
-Equals 13630.122 Fire Damage.
Factor in 80% More bonus with Weapon Elemental Damage
--Equals 24534 Fire Damage.

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NONE OF THIS IS FACTORING IN ATTACK SPEED, THIS IS SIMPLY PER HIT DAMAGE.

Do the same conversion with Infernal Blow, and you eliminate the Cold part.

The full 2530.5 gets converted straight to fire, where the fire damage nodes and WED support apply.

So...

2530.5 Base Fire Damage
153% Increased Fire Damage from Passives (combo of +% Elemental Damage and +% Fire Damage)
-Equals 6402.165 Fire Damage.
Factor in 80% More bonus with Weapon Elemental Damage
--Equals 11523.9 Fire Damage.

In this case, Glacial Hammer will do more than double the per hit damage of Infernal Blow.

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analdischarge wrote:

all conversions are done BEFORE applying elemental increases

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HexenLord wrote:

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analdischarge wrote:

all conversions are done BEFORE applying elemental increases

Are you sure about this? Is it just physical damage that scales fully before being converted? I noticed that physical damage gets all of its modifiers before being converted to other elements. Ive never actually had it confirmed that elements get converted before modifiers apply.

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analdischarge wrote:

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HexenLord wrote:

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analdischarge wrote:

all conversions are done BEFORE applying elemental increases

Are you sure about this? Is it just physical damage that scales fully before being converted? I noticed that physical damage gets all of its modifiers before being converted to other elements. Ive never actually had it confirmed that elements get converted before modifiers apply.

only cold specific passives will apply in that part of the calculation (before it is converted to fire). WED will only ever be applied after all conversions and increases.

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Interaction with other modifiers


Converted damage is affected by modifiers that apply to be both the original damage type it was converted from, and the new damage type that is was converted to. For example Fire Damage that is added by the Added Fire Damage gem will be affected by both increased Physical Damage modifiers and increased Fire Damage modifiers.

Also, converted damage can itself be converted. For example:
A player is wielding a weapon that deals 100 Physical Damage,
the player is affected by a level 11 Hatred aura which has the modifier 20% of Physical Damage Added as Cold Damage,
the player is using an attack supported by a level 1 Cold to Fire support gem, with the modifier 40% of Cold Damage Converted to Fire Damage
In this example 20% of the Physical Damage is added as Cold damage, and 40% of that Cold damage is converted to Fire. The resulting damage is therefore 100 Physical Damage, 12 Cold Damage, and 8 Fire Damage.

The Physical Damage was not the result of a conversion, and so is only affected by modifiers that affect Physical Damage, as normal

The Cold Damage will be affected by any mods that affect either Physical Damage or Cold Damage

The Fire Damage will be affected by any mods that affect Physical, Cold or Fire Damage

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HexenLord wrote:

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analdischarge wrote:

all conversions are done BEFORE applying elemental increases

Are you sure about this? Is it just physical damage that scales fully before being converted? I noticed that physical damage gets all of its modifiers before being converted to other elements. Ive never actually had it confirmed that elements get converted before modifiers apply.

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HexenLord wrote:

Ah, I did include WED in the cold damage, didn't catch that before.

That brings GH to somewhere around 16190 damage and IB to 11523.

This is with both of them having Melee Physical and WED. The biggest downside to use Glacial Hammer is the last support gem. With IB you can have multistrike, melee splash, and fire pen. With Glacial Hammer you have to give up one of these for Cold to Fire.

Glacial Hammer will still come out on top damage wise, but not if you count the explosions from IB linked with Melee Splash.

I guess maybe Glacial Hammer isn't the best idea after-all. Back to the drawing board?

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VictorDoom wrote:

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HexenLord wrote:

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analdischarge wrote:

all conversions are done BEFORE applying elemental increases

Are you sure about this? Is it just physical damage that scales fully before being converted? I noticed that physical damage gets all of its modifiers before being converted to other elements. Ive never actually had it confirmed that elements get converted before modifiers apply.

Yes, thats why your calculations are mostly off, you assumed the damage gets increased BEFORE conversions...

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HexenLord wrote:

Ah, I did include WED in the cold damage, didn't catch that before.

That brings GH to somewhere around 16190 damage and IB to 11523.

This is with both of them having Melee Physical and WED. The biggest downside to use Glacial Hammer is the last support gem. With IB you can have multistrike, melee splash, and fire pen. With Glacial Hammer you have to give up one of these for Cold to Fire.

Glacial Hammer will still come out on top damage wise, but not if you count the explosions from IB linked with Melee Splash.

I guess maybe Glacial Hammer isn't the best idea after-all. Back to the drawing board?

yeah, and GH is at 16.190 with extra nodes in cold damage, and an extra link where IB hasnt ahd any icnreases with the points you would have used to get the cold damage, and of course it has a free link since it doesnt have CTF.

By just using added fire damage with IB instead of the CTF, we get 16.015 damage, now with the points you didnt use on the IB calculation that you sued for cold damage i assure you it would be more dps.