Build Complexity vs Casual Gamers
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How difficult would it be for someone who doesn't frequent the forum or have a really good understanding of the mechanics of this game to make a viable end-game build?
I can't imagine what people are going through trying to build characters if they don't keep up with what's useful via the forum or the PoE wiki... Take for example average Joey Baggadonuts picks up PoE and sits down to play, picks his "class" and starts his journey. Say he rolls up a witch 10-15 levels go by and he's dumped his points into some seemingly nice passives, increased spell damage and the like, fairly straightforward stuff. Now hes around lvl 20-30 and beginning to branch out and starts coming across life nodes, accuracy, increased skill duration, buff duration, shield CD recovery, increased ES, increased area effect and some of the bigger staple passives like Conduit, CI, Eld Battery and the like. How much fun is this guy going to have trying to figure out how exactly these passives affect his character and how much or how little he will need to stay viable end-game. How does he know what specific skills are affected by increased buff duration or increased area effect, how much should he increase ES, how much shield cool down recovery is too much, should he focus on health nodes or ES nodes or both and how much of each. Increased buff duration? What is a "buff"? is it specifically an aura? Or will it affect Molten Shell, Enduring Cry, Dominating Blow, etc? Are there viable spells for the specific element he is pumping points into? Say he would like an electric witch, he just going to Spark stuff to death all the way to end-game? How does he know what synergies might help Spark other than the obvious electric damage nodes? How many cookie cutter builds exist that are obvious enough that someone with very little knowledge of the game could spec into and be viable without having to scour the forum? This game just doesn't seem like something someone picks up to have fun in right off the bat. You have to do a good bit of looking around to find the info all the number crunchers and min/maxers have made available to you or you end up at around lvl 25 struggling to progress. I understand nobody is going to have a full grasp on a game from the start but this passive system seems very unforgiving. | |
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I really like that it´s that way!
I started not so long ago and did just what you described. Just trying out stuff, putting skill points here and there. After reaching about lvl 25 i decided to start over, which was clear at the beginning i had to. I checked the forums for about half an hour and tried a build (yes, a cookie-cutter crit witch) and it worked great. Since that i have an idea in what to look for in builds. Sometimes i think i enjoy planning a build more than actually playing. When i get bored, i think of some other build. Maybe i try it, but mostly, i don´t. And thats fun too. With every new character you learn a bit more, so there´s always something to look forward to. Theres nothing more boring in a game than not having to think about what you want to do. | |
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There is no shame in starting over again, if you get stuck try again.
The "endgame" is not something you need to reach, the actual game is more about seeing how your character progresses. So instead of trying to plan ahead for everything just experiment instead and eventually you will learn more and more about how everything works. I never visit the PoE wiki and I never read the guides or tutorials on the site because I have the most fun learning these things for myself. | |
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I really don't understand this. People was crazy mad, when Jay Wilson first mentioned, that they would make respecs an essential part of the skill system "there is no fun in having to make a new character due to mistakes" he said something like that. People didn't agree at that time - but now, it has suddenly become law. What the fuck happened? I guess those who was mad at first, was the Diablo 2-fans who actually followed the development of D3, and those we hear these days, are the ones who comes from WoW.
I guess most of the people who are against this kind of mechanics, haven't played Diablo 2. Is it really too much to ask, that when you pick up this game, you actually research a little about, what Diablo 2 is all about? I mean GGG actually states, that this game is a niche game for the segment who loved Diablo 2. Sorry for the rant, but it annoys me, that people apparently doesn't understand what a niche means. I would never buy a Stephen King book and criticize it for being too scary for my kids. Danskere: PM mig, hvis I har brug for en guild. Last edited by ongZ on Oct 17, 2012, 7:19:19 AM
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I actually started playing much as you describe it, OP. I fiddled with the website's tree for a while but when I got in-game, I just went a little nuts.
I had a lot of fun doing so, too. Unfortunately, I realised pretty early on I hadn't made an 'end-game' build, so I started over. That's the key, right there. The game was good enough that I didn't give up or quit. Instead, I conceded a conditional defeat -- the game was better than me, rather than me being better than it. But the defeat wasn't crushing, it wasn't depressing. It was encouraging. And I think that is the sort of 'casual' player GGG have made this game for. Because I've YET to make an end-game character (merciless is okay, I've never run a map) and I'm still having a blast. Not all casual players need to reach end-game; I content quite a few don't. That's part of what makes us casual. We can enjoy the game at various levels. For a casual, end-game isn't always all that important. So I find the initial query a little baffling. On one hand, it's trying to ask how many casuals would make it to the end-game based on how complex the builds are, but on the other it completely ignores what a casual gamer's idea of 'end-game' actually is. It ignores that casual gamers are notorious for finding pleasure in things that 'hardcore gamers' can't comprehend, like exploring zones and delighting in finding little details. Like tweaking a low level build. Like chatting in Global. I would therefore argue that what the OP has defined as 'end-game' is not a necessary goal for a casual player. ...The magic of PoE is it's so good, so enticing, so inviting, so maddeningly frustrating, that it makes relatively hardcore gamers out of those same casuals. Then they start reading the forum, asking questions in chat, playing more with the skill tree... That's when you know a game is really good. When it effortlessly converts casuals to hardcore. PoE does that. Currently playing on: Ps5 - - Diablo IV s4, Predecessor, Dungeon Encounters, Assassins Creed Origins, Stellaris (finally); Tablet - - Buriedbornes 2, Dawncaster Deckbuilder, Loop Hero, Fate GO; and, PC - - Word (book 2 final draft is *really* close to done) Last edited by Foreverhappychan on Oct 17, 2012, 7:24:15 AM
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I'm sure some casual players will figure it out.
But if none of them do, it isn't GGG's problem. This game's core audience is hardcore. Chris and the others know that. They think there are a sufficient number of hardcore players interested in the game that it will stay solvent for a decade. That sounds like a reasonable business plan to me. If the casuals don't jump onto this like they did League of Legends, it's their loss. My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282
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This game was my first action rpg. I never visited the forums to check on builds, ect ect. I just picked it up and started playing. My first character.... horrid. A ci witch with like 12k es that still died in fellshrine (witch was 54, fellshrine in ruthless). It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what a buff or aura is. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out how molten shell, enduring cry, dominating blow work. You just fucking read the gem!
I didn't know shit about the game, I was the one that died to the very first mob like 7 times because I didn't know I was suppose to pick up the fucking weapon right next to my feet and attack. And now I'm an 81 elemental bow witch whos better off than most rangers and shadows Ive seen. If I can figure out this game, I'm pretty sure any retard with a keyboard can figure it out as well. Edit: And I would like to add. Figuring out the builds, spending time on them, building up to them. Thats what a casual gamer like me likes. It is fun for me going into something I have no idea about and learning it. And then perfecting my character to the way I use it. You can't fully learn without making some mistakes first. My Kiwi's name is Fluffy. It eats souls and small children. Don't fuck with Fluffy. Last edited by metisuneatn on Oct 17, 2012, 7:43:43 AM
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I appreciate all the feedback guys, good stuff.
" Yes I agree with this actually, what I consider to be casual end-game play is probably different than many peoples idea of it. I don't consider myself casual as end-game for me means min/maxing / farming and eventually PvP. What I consider to be casual end-game play is simply being able to progress through the difficulties at a decent (but still challenging) rate. Basically being able to enjoy the higher difficulties without just straight up hitting a brick wall due to your passives being a bit out of whack. " Nowhere in my post did I say it was a problem figuring out HOW molten shell, enduring cry, and dominating blow work, they are clearly explained. But the passives that do and don't affect these buffs are not clearly explained anywhere but online. " If this is truly the official word on the matter then disregard my post as they have clearly already made it clear this game isn't for casuals and I had just missed the memo ;] Also just a note my post was not really meant to relate to me specifically as I do extensive research on builds and the wiki to figure out what affects what. In my time researching different builds I had an epiphany of how daunting the task of creating your own build must be for those guys who don't have time to sit down and read the forums or wiki for hours. | |
" tl;dr: I wanna get to end game but I don't wanna put any thought or effort into it. Can you guys get right on that?? |
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Totally not what I got from the OP, Ladderjack, and to be completely honest, the OP was considerate and intelligent enough to deserve a lot better than your smarmy dismissal.
Currently playing on:
Ps5 - - Diablo IV s4, Predecessor, Dungeon Encounters, Assassins Creed Origins, Stellaris (finally); Tablet - - Buriedbornes 2, Dawncaster Deckbuilder, Loop Hero, Fate GO; and, PC - - Word (book 2 final draft is *really* close to done) |
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