Why are base stats part of the passive tree

Probably everybody knows that one of the differences between leveling in D2 and leveling in PoE is distributing skill points when leveling.
In Diablo 2, with every level you had 4 options: Strength, Dexterity, Vitality and Energy.
In PoE there are 6 base stats: STR/LIFE/DEX/AR/INT/MANA
These 6 stats can all be found in the passive tree of course and this is one of the reasons that the skill tree is so overwhelming. And why make it so "difficult"? What is the benefit and isn't it only distracting players from their core build and the keystones that really matter like RT/CI/IR/ etc etc?

So why not either combine these small nodes like STR/LIFE DEX/AR INT/MANA in the passive tree to make it more compact?
Or even better, I think: Why not remove them completely and just put them back in the character screen (combined)?

Wouldn't that be a lot more convenient and accessible instead of struggling with planning routes with dozens of small nodes towards the keystones you really want?

Of course still: There can be notable (bigger) keystones that increase those base stats as well.

What a relieve would it be to have a clean and clear tree and also to get more balanced defenses. Life, evasion and energy shield could be a lot easier to balance as a result too

BTW: For example I really like the passives in Skyrim, structured but still deep enough and very interesting. No over the top micromanagement there but still enough choices and variety

Over-the-top micromanagement is enjoyable for some people when designing builds. I am one of those people. If PoE had a simplified passive tree I would enjoy the game less.

The only real difference is that the routes to the keystones that are relevant are a lot shorter, I don't see why that would be less enjoyable

I don't understand.

You listed 6 stats, str/dex/int mana/es/ev - where is AR?

This seems rather strange to not include AR and instead include ES. Why did you entirely remove int from your 'combined' stats.

Whats more, we already have this system you state. Your Int nodes give you ES/Mana. Your Dex nodes give you acc/EVA, and your str give you melee/life

So you already have str GIVING you life. You already have teh MANA/ES nodes all over the tree in the form of int.



Please clarify your actual goal, and the reason this goal would benefit. As it currently stands, the 3 base stats have a distinct effect on your character build, and they are MORE noticeable than D2 (seriously, you are bringing up D2's passives?) where you got minimum stats and then only vitality

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Startkabels wrote:

The only real difference is that the routes to the keystones that are relevant are a lot shorter, I don't see why that would be less enjoyable

we can also make a tree with just one keystone, the i win keystone. it gives 999+ to all stats and everything you need to faceroll and get good (2.0) loot

i mean who the hell likes thinking and planning routes in a skill tree?

Why wouldn't passive stats be part of a passive tree?

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Faerindel wrote:

Why wouldn't passive stats be part of a passive tree?

That's not a great argument. What are active stats?

Also, a counter argument is that the passive skill tree should contain only passive skills, not stats.

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Startkabels wrote:

Wouldn't that be a lot more convenient and accessible instead of struggling with planning routes with dozens of small nodes towards the keystones you really want?

no

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Faerindel wrote:

Why wouldn't passive stats be part of a passive tree?

That's not a great argument. What are active stats?

Also, a counter argument is that the passive skill tree should contain only passive skills, not stats.

well, in a way a stat is a skill in this strange turn of lingo, strength is no less a skill than life or crit chance.

The core stats provide a way to have nodes that can link things you want and bypass things you dont by having things everyone needs joining it all up together. It would be a complete clusterfuck if you had to go through specialist stats to get to other specialist stats. If you want to go ci you are pushed into using wands or claws because you have to go through either the wand or claw nodes to get to ci... it just doesnt work. Pretty much everything but the core stats are niche.


I dont find the skill tree overwhelming, its large, once you get over that its easy and its genius, its an actual tree and provides deep customisation and builds. Skyrim has perc chains in the shape of constellations, its an entirely different thing. Its great, compared to Oblivion and considering its in a game designed to be accessible to 10 year olds playing on an xbox.

Skyrim is one of if not the best single player RPG to date imo. Because of the world, the landscapes, the quest systems, the awesome detail and scope of the thing, not because it has a really great passive tree system for creating diverse builds. The loot and builds have all the depth of motorway roadkill and offer very little replayability from that standpoint.

I cant work out if the op is trolling or he just has no grasp of this game.

Early on in the passive redesign (0.9.3 I think) we discovered players really disliked taking nodes they considered useless for their build.

So any transport nodes that weren't stats were problematic. And trying to build a passive tree without transport nodes as such (1) looks very messy, and (2) also has the problem of people feeling they are taking "useless nodes".