XP Level Penalty should be reworked

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Real_Wolf wrote:

Maps are a filler. They aren't the fi nal product. But rather than release something terrible and un finished, they want to make sure it is working as intended, will improve gameplay, and not break things.

Is it really a good idea to complain about not releasing unfinished products? Anyone reminded of those games 3-4 years ago that were super buggy out of the box because the dev teams had to work towards the 'game must be finished by this date' producers forced a terrible game out?

Yes, maps are a gateway. Yes, maps are doing some things very well and some things badly. But the XP is meant to be difficult to obtain. Sure, it may be better in future for levelling areas, but as it is now, this is what we have, and the dev's won't be making significant changes to maps for XP benefits because of this

this coming from a guy who has proven repeatedly to not have a clue what he is talking about when trying to tell people how the game 'should' work. Make sure maps are working as intended? Theyre not working as intended, 95% of maps being run are being run to get something maps were not designed to give you, and we shouldnt fix this because they want to make sure maps are working as intended?


you dont have a clue what you are talking about, you didnt even know you get an xp penalty in maps as a high level player until 5 minutes ago, get out of here telling anyone anything about this game.

Yall are failing to read Chris (you know... CEO and Lead Dev of GGG) and my position. Im not complaining about maps. I am complaining about leveling. I am not super hardcore but I am a fairly hardcore player. Hardcore as in putting in several hours a day and mostly working from a self found position and ignoring as much MF as I can get away with. I focus on my builds and playing them. I really enjoy them and leveling them up. I would love to level them to 200 if the game went that far. Sadly 100 is the cap.

Now currently we have to deal with a map system for high level XP gain. GGG have said that they want to change that. Im asking that in the short run until they change the way we can level away from the Map system (which is designed for item limiting) that they change a big roadblock in XP penalty so that it is not so harsh for those who dont have a farming group and/or RMT to back them up.

Feedback.. the current XP Level Penalty is to harsh. Please change it.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Real_Wolf wrote:

Maps are a filler. They aren't the fi nal product. But rather than release something terrible and un finished, they want to make sure it is working as intended, will improve gameplay, and not break things.

Is it really a good idea to complain about not releasing unfinished products? Anyone reminded of those games 3-4 years ago that were super buggy out of the box because the dev teams had to work towards the 'game must be finished by this date' producers forced a terrible game out?

Yes, maps are a gateway. Yes, maps are doing some things very well and some things badly. But the XP is meant to be difficult to obtain. Sure, it may be better in future for levelling areas, but as it is now, this is what we have, and the dev's won't be making significant changes to maps for XP benefits because of this

this coming from a guy who has proven repeatedly to not have a clue what he is talking about when trying to tell people how the game 'should' work. Make sure maps are working as intended? Theyre not working as intended, 95% of maps being run are being run to get something maps were not designed to give you, and we shouldnt fix this because they want to make sure maps are working as intended?


you dont have a clue what you are talking about, you didnt even know you get an xp penalty in maps as a high level player until 5 minutes ago, get out of here telling anyone anything about this game.

I was talking about the 'new' method of gaining XP they are looking into that isn't maps. Not maps. Geez

Biship, the discussion isn't so much just xp level penalty, but is tied into XP on maps because maps are the higher level content than the lvl 68 max. I wouldn't mind if XP penalty was capped at something like 10 levels above content, but I am curious how yout hink it should change as currently it does use an actual equation which would need to change

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grepman wrote:

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Bishop120 wrote:

The amount of XP is how you control that... not with XP penalty to level. I dont mind farming for hours on end. I have over 11 days on one of my 80s. Thats pretty piss poor compared to some people but it shows that I still dont mind doing that.

Edit -- @ RealWolf.. I didnt ask them to change maps. I completely agree and stand behind them being hard to obtain for item purposes. Please re-read my posts and the subject line to see what I am giving my feedback on.

but wouldnt that require a whole re-work of the xp table per level ? xp penalty in lower levels should obviously stay the same (I think youll agree) so what exactly do you propose ? lower actual XP at higher levels ?

agreed xp should stay the same in lower levels. But it should be curved so that a lvl85 player is not getting a 52% experience nerf in a lvl72 map. That is retarded, at lvl85 you have to run a lvl77 map to not get an xp penalty. By lvl89 you are getting a 85% xp nerf in a lvl72 map, making it hardly worth playing. This is way, wayyyyy overboard, you are forcing people who want to level their characters to either chain lvl76+ maps or come on here and QQ. Seeing as the game is designed to not let you chain 76/77, guess what, theres a thread, many threads.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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Bishop120 wrote:

The amount of XP is how you control that... not with XP penalty to level. I dont mind farming for hours on end. I have over 11 days on one of my 80s. Thats pretty piss poor compared to some people but it shows that I still dont mind doing that.

Edit -- @ RealWolf.. I didnt ask them to change maps. I completely agree and stand behind them being hard to obtain for item purposes. Please re-read my posts and the subject line to see what I am giving my feedback on.

but wouldnt that require a whole re-work of the xp table per level ? xp penalty in lower levels should obviously stay the same (I think youll agree) so what exactly do you propose ? lower actual XP at higher levels ?

agreed xp should stay the same in lower levels. But it should be curved so that a lvl85 player is not getting a 52% experience nerf in a lvl72 map. That is retarded, at lvl85 you have to run a lvl77 map to not get an xp penalty. By lvl89 you are getting a 85% xp nerf in a lvl72 map, making it hardly worth playing. This is way, wayyyyy overboard, you are forcing people who want to level their characters to either chain lvl76+ maps or come on here and QQ. Seeing as the game is designed to not let you chain 76/77, guess what, theres a thread, many threads.

so youre ok with getting the same 48% XP nerf if instead of xp penalty the higher maps would simply give you less xp (bad for gems too, I might add) ?

or do you actually want full xp from each level, so that getting to lvl 90 off lunaris 68+ a pool of 72-74 maps would be a breeze ?

hint: GGG would never do the latter. they said maps are not a device to get xp like that.

Here is the current graph of XP and levels. As you can see by level 80 you dont even have 1/4 of the total XP you will get by end game. In truth you have closer to about 1/5 the total XP you will get.

Yall are questioning why I use level 68. Level 68 is the only zone I can guarantee to play. I dont want to ask for map drop rates as that would screw up are already problematic itemization issue. 66 maps are the lowest level maps and it takes at least 9 66 maps to make a 68 map. While I can go through and use my 66-70 maps all day its still better for me to just farm 68 for XP till a certain point.

Simplification:

Lvl 80 -- 855,129,128 total XP
Lvl 100 -- 4,250,334,444 total XP

In other words.. its easier to get 5 toons to level 80 with 0 XP penalty than it is to get 1 to 100. This I don't have a problem with. This is normal. What makes it ridiculous to level is the penalty.

Now... at 80 you get 62% normal XP from level 68 zone.
By level 99 you would get less than 1% XP from level 68 zone.

Monsters in a level 68 zone give about 40K or so XP... now at level 80 thats ~25K XP.. at level 99 thats less than 400XP per mob. Thats kinda extreme. Considering that at level 99 it takes 317,515,914 XP to get to 100 (which is almost half what it took to get to 80!) at 400xp per mob you would have to kill close to 800k mobs! At 200 mobs per Lunaris 3 map your looking at about 4,000 lunaris 3 runs. Even if you got that down to 5 mins for a FULL clear your looking at close to 14 DAYS straight of running Lunaris 3 runs to level!!!

Lets say level 70 maps were used rather than 68L3. Your still getting less than 2% from zone and at 77 your only getting 6%. Yeah something needs to be done.

Higher level content is not possible at this time (Act 3X - Act 4 coming later this year) and we dont want to really take away from the devs time here. Now another thing to think about. The complex math formula..

Final Experience % = [(PlayerLevel + 5) / (PlayerLevel + 5 + EffectiveDifference^2.5)]^1.5

Thats a little bit convoluted. Not to many players can figure out their XP off that without a calculator or excell spreadsheet.

Lets just make it simple... -3% XP for every level difference. A level 99 farming Lunaris 3 would get a 93% XP penalty... or more appropriately.. only receive 7%XP. A level 80 in Lunaris 3 would have 36% penalty.. about the same as now... but when I hit 81 rather than dropping 12% I would only drop another 3%.

Put into the same turns as above.. A 99 farming Lunaris 3 would only have to farm for 4 days to make the final level rather than 14 days. Still a remarkable feat.

you dont need to hint anything, I am well aware what GGG have said. They said they are considering allowing us to access maps specifically for xp. So when you tell me they will 'never' let us access maps to get xp to grind to 90, how sure are you about that?

Hint: you dont know as much as you think you know.

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Bishop120 wrote:

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round of applause, this is exactly the sort of change it needs. Tbh anything beyond lvl95, when you get there you are well into the long grass, I dont really have a problem if that want to start extending the xp needed through the 90s so that by 99 its starting to balance back towards 14 days, if they want to give the game impossible longevity fine, but save it for people who are pushing all the way, dont fence off the majority of the player base from endgame and levelling to 90 in the name of longevity. That does the opposite, people are here wanting to play the game for a long time to come and the system is forcing them out of the game before they want to leave.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

you dont need to hint anything, I am well aware what GGG have said. They said they are considering allowing us to access maps specifically for xp. So when you tell me they will 'never' let us access maps to get xp to grind to 90, how sure are you about that?

Hint: you dont know as much as you think you know.

fair enough, got a link where they specifically say that ? in terms of maps specifically for xp ?

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Our largest problem with the Map system is that high-level experience gain is gated by a system that was designed for gating high-level item acquisition. We are 100% happy with how maps work as far as the item system goes (and are amazed by how much even white items from the highest maps are worth), but we're not happy with how it affects players who are trying to grind for the highest spots on the ladder. We are considering some potential solutions (experience equation changes, ways to access maps for experience gain rather than items, etc).

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/322592



forgive any animosity I have been giving off on this subject, its been a shit day in general, Im sure youre all nice people who mean well and I mean you no harm.

It just seems like every time a thread like this comes up people jump in and challenge the idea that there is a problem. The Devs have said they think its a problem, and that they are considering ways to change things, the debate on 'if' its a problem at all is already over, its been over for 4 months. That was posted back in April and we've been waiting ever since for some word on when we will be allowed to level our characters in this arpg. This is a vital part of the game and a super, super heated issue for some of us who have been driven crazy by this problem for a long, long time.