Melee vs Ranged Balance: Damage Effectiveness

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Odoakar wrote:

A lot of you are missing the point in the OP - if you buff the damage output, you need to invest less passive points into offense to keep your current dps, and can invest more in defence.

Simple as that.

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raics wrote:

And I was being conservative, quite a few melee builds invest more than 80% of passive points into defense (barring those allocated to travel the grid). I don't call broken, I call crashed and burned.

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mazul wrote:

Spoiler

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Sodomee wrote:

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mazul wrote:

Rigorous testing with purity, conversion trap and elemental weakness as well as analysis of the client itself.

That's 55k dps due to shotgun effect prior to projectile distance negative bonus. Not to mention the very high chance to freeze target.

At http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/314832/page/1 we have a LMP pre-nerf RF FP at 59k shotgun dps.

AoE range on that 44k dps cleave? It is also of interest to compare your effective physical hp and magical hp compared to the one of the RF Shavronne FP, because to match the survivability one of you needs to reduce your dps by switching nodes.

Keep also in mind that RF Shavronne FP can and should use Vaal Pact which adds a hell lot to their survivability.

Yeah 55k and 59k prenerf pure Elemental DPS before the long-ranged dps loss. Also the person you linked does not even show their true defenses with that dps. They show the dps of the pure damage build and the defenses of the tanky build with granite up.

Comparing Life vs. ES build defenses are not accurate even if the guy did show his actual stats in the lab with no granite. With life you can stack more regen and armour and use health flasks. With ES builds you can go vaal pact and get unique items(one of which is not even in the Anarchy league that I play) to prevent stun/frozen. My defense speaks for itself considering the fact that I am the highest level melee build(Rank 19) on Anarchy at level 93.

Either way, I've seen many FP builds(pre-nerf) clear relatively slow when comparing to my cleave marauder. My AoE range is pretty huge with "Master of the Arena" and it extends past the graphic of cleave. Also with FP, you can either shotgun or AoE. If you AoE, you are cutting your dps down by more than half.

Master of Arena does not affect Cleave. The radius of basic Cleave is 20.
Source: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/230356/page/1

You make a good point about Anarchy league not having access to Eye_of_Chayula. This forces FP users to get Unwavering Stance instead.

About FP builds: there is a massive difference between people when it comes to FP builds. What is of interest is to compare the best FP builds vs best Cleave builds.

You make a good point about a shotgun FP having lower affected area than a non shotgun FP.

Your defense does not speak for itself given that a player with very good mechanics can reach top levels with a suboptimal build.

I think a good idea would be if GGG started hosting tournaments for fastest non-RNG clears where everyone can participate with their main character.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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raics wrote:

And I was being conservative, quite a few melee builds invest more than 80% of passive points into defense (barring those allocated to travel the grid). I don't call broken, I call crashed and burned.

If you are trying to make a tank, what on earth did you expect? You shouldn't be able to have an extremely strong defense without extremely strong dedication.

I do think there should be more variety in the defense nodes to choose from (particularly in the area of the tree around Blood Magic), but I wouldn't expect tanky characters not to have to invest heavily in defense.