Point Blank + Lightning Strike doesn't seem to work

I've been testing this pretty thoroughly on my Lightning Strike Shadow. Here is what I have been finding:

I *destroy* most enemies at *any* range. Point Blank or no, my damage is quite consistently awesome. Currently I'm at 1450 DPS (lvl 51, doing Ledge runs for EXP). By the Lightning Strike skill description, lightning "is released from the weapon as projectiles as you strike". By all accounts, this is considered ranged damage (as noted by the fact that you can use Lesser Multiple Projectiles on it). So technically, it should work with the keystone Point Blank. My build was based around this idea.

Thing is, I still regularly find corpses far away. I'm meaning, way off of my screen, where there is little to no chance I could have actually hit the same square multiple times with stray lightning bolts. As such, I severely began to doubt that this was working.

We currently have no way to see the numbers of damage we deal, so I am forced to confirm this in a much more time conscious manner.

Testing

I changed up my gear for defense, and with a more "reliable" amount of damage. Nonetheless, my main method of testing this was to take the same opponent--namely, Hillock--and fight against him numerous times, counting the amount of hits it I required to kill him from different ranges. I took screenshots of the general range that I'm referring to when I mention a range. But as you'll see from the results, it really doesn't matter. I also tried to count the amount of times I accidentally hit him while he was shocked, because of course, shock could potentially ruin the data. I kept him in range of my screen at all times, just for the sake of counting. I only counted a "hit" whenever his life bar visibly went down.

I did 3 runs at each range + 1 run on Cruel with a crappy wand that was in my stash. Of course, the Cruel numbers are different, and should only be compared against each other. Finally, I did 2 runs afterward without the Point Blank keystone active. (I figured this test was worth using some of my unused Respec points... but as my Level 52 character is effectively ruined now, I probably need those....)

Short Range

1st Run: 39 (1 hit while shocked)
2nd Run: 31
Wand Run on Cruel: 15




Mid Range

1st Run: 30 (2 hits while shocked)
2nd Run: 26
Wand Run on Cruel: 13




Long Range

1st Run: 38 (1 hit while shocked; *forgot to turn on my Wrath aura through this fight*)
2nd Run: 31
Wand Run on Cruel: 16




No Point Blank

The ranges here have no purpose other than for the sake of data and irony.

1st Run: 22 (all from short range)
2nd Run: 32 (all from mid range)
Wand Run on Cruel: 18 (all from short range)

Analysis

It frankly appears as though the Point Blank keystone simply has poorly worded text. The Point Blank Support Gem states that it only works for bows. From the looks of it, the Point Blank keystone is the same way. There is no noticeable difference in damage whatsoever at any range when using Wands or Lightning Strike.

It would be a good idea for debug purpose to have a dps parser somewhere (best would be in a chat additional tab)
This will be removed once beta is over but for debug and feedback, this is a must have.

Perhaps the wording for the keystone is incorrect. The support gem specifically says only bow attacks. Could you try equipping a wand and see if it even works on wands?

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anubite wrote:

Perhaps the wording for the keystone is incorrect. The support gem specifically says only bow attacks. Could you try equipping a wand and see if it even works on wands?

You appear to be correct, and I tested with a wand thanks to your suggestion.

It's too bad it doesn't work on wands either, though it would be nice if they could enable the functionality for it! The next step would be to consider allowing it for lightning strike, but the thing to be worried about is -- ethereal knives? Or spark? Or how about freezing pulse? These are all projectile spells and would probably be ridiculous with point blank.

Lightning strike is an attack though... I suppose they could add wands and lightning strike provided they require the skills be attacks and not spells.

At the very least, the keystone should be updated for now to say "bows".

Well, Lightning Strike itself is a "melee attack" (I assume given the wording of the skill), not a "ranged attack" so it would make sense to consider the projectiles as "melee originated" if you will, in the context of Point Blank. Though you can shift LS into a vacuum and still trigger the projectiles (i.e. without hitting a melee target) so it can look confusing.

PB on LS would be pretty OP, IMHO, since LS is used by melee characters which by definition are built for melee range in the first place. The intent of PB is to provide a risk/reward option for ranged builds (I use it on my bow ranger), not to buff melee DPS.

Incidentally, it's funny, LS is my AOE/LoH attack of choice on my lvl 51 Marauder and I have 1500 dps out of it too (single target tooltip number before auras, Frenzy charges et. al.)

I understand what you mean by it being potentially overpowered and that Lightning Strike is a melee attack at its core. However, that does not make the vague wording over both the skill Lightning Strike and the passive node Point Blank acceptable. It should be certain, upon reading the skills, what is considered what.

Notably, Lighting Strike is clearly a ranged attack. Regardless of the fact that a melee attack can affect it, its primary usage (the thing that sets it apart) is that it can be used as a ranged attack. Projectile nodes and buffs affect it (LMP, + Proj damage, Pierce, etc.). And the fact that the exact wording of Point Blank is "Ranged Attacks deal up to 50% more damage to very close targets..." by all accounts would suggest that, however strong it would be, Lighting Strike should be affected by it.

Frankly, I think that it hurts build diversity if a node like this is limited only to bows. For that matter, many of the bow nodes could easily be converted to affect other types of projectiles. King of the Hill? Piercing Shots? And for that matter, why can't Arrow Dodging affect Projectile Spells? Yes, some of these might become a little more powerful than intended, but let's be honest, burying these skills deep in the Ranger territory like they are is enough of a hindrance as it is, because you sure as hell don't see any Ranger casters running about. Hmm... wonder why?

Yes, wording could be less ambiguous (that applies both to PB and LS) and some skills could be broader. I feel my marauder can postpone its sword vs mace vs axe choice for a good while, vs. pretty restricted bow or claw choices on the Dex side. I think at some point GGG intends to add more ranged weapons such as crossbows, which should help make ranged Dex less narrow.

well wtf. I built a shadow around ethereal knives and freezing pulse + wondered why point blank felt like such a waste I ended up just taking the point back.

This is where two of the power words come into play.

- Skills are either attacks (with attack speeds) or spells (with cast speeds).
- Bows and wands are ranged and shoot projectiles, all other weapons are melee weapon damage.

The first will explain why Point Blank doesn't work with EK or FP. The second will explain (kinda) why it doesn't work with LS (since LS is a 'melee attack', not a 'ranged attack').

I'll admit that a melee attack that has projectiles is quite weird and makes the terminology a bit of a maze, but invariants like the ones above make it more clear.